I've read through a number of your posts in this thread. While I haven't seen you directly condemn him, your very words, calling him a blasphemer, are in themselves a condemnation.

I will admit that this is just 1 interpretation, but your denouncing his words - his condemnation of the sins of this nation - are a condemnation, along with your refusal to listen to anything else he says:

"He is to me the perfect example of a person who has spoken so objectionably that I cannot hear anything else he has to say, no matter how right, generous, forgiving, whatever."

http://news.propeller.com/story/2008/04/27/rev-...

God has also said that if you do certain things, you will be damned. Wright was pointing out what we, as a nation, have done which is leading to our damnation, as a nation.

For you to so adamantly CONDEMN a man for his condemnation of the US's actions is a bit ludicrous. Preachers point out the sins in themselves & around them. They try to get their parishioners to repent or work to correct those mistakes.

His sermon was saying a couple of things:

1) The US HAS reaped the fruits of its labors for its past atrocities

2) The US WILL be damned if we don't correct its path.

The divisiveness isn't coming from Wright, who integrated the church. It's coming from those who didn't hear the sermon & are just taking bits & pieces to support their claims of his "unpatriotic" behavior.

Actually the Spanish crown beat the US by about 350 years. Slavery was banished by Spain in 1508 and the ban was reinforced in 1542. The Jesuits, especially Bartolme de las Casas, were instrumental in this ban. The legal and religious basis for the ban was medieval catholic teachings that indigenous people were entitled to rule their own countries, even if they were not christians. The US and Britain lost this tradition when the Brits abandoned catholicism for political reasons.

Consequence: we massacred the indians, whereas, apart from disease, indigenous populations remained strong throughout latin america. Can you imagine if 60% of the US population were indigenous, as is the case in Peru?

If America was destroyed tomorrow, there would be no Americans, because the political entity that is America would no longer exist. Learn the difference between ethnicity, which is what The Law created for the Jews, and nationality.

The best way to overcome racism in America, in my opinion, is addressing economic ills. We must finish what begain in the late sixties. Lyndon Johnson had it right with the great society, but those noble efforts were undermined and cut short by the war in Vietnam and a cultural backlash that sprang up in response to general perception that lawlessness and moral decay were on the rise. Many of the ideas of the Great society were naive but failure of the war on poverty was not a forgone conclusion in my opinion but an unfortunate combination of events and the forces of reaction.

Unless it was preceded by: "and we must never say or even think that"

Though it is between me and God, I will tell you I have never killed anyone, or tried to. That does not mean that I would never do so; I have just never been in a situation where I deemed it the lesser of evils. My nation comes before any individual member of it, including myself. Nowhere am I commanded to love others MORE than myself. Again, there is nothing you can say to justify damning my nation. It is inexcusable. And before you start again, please note that "inexcusable" does not mean or imply "unforgivable".

1. Love God with your whole heart, soul and mind.

2. Love your neighbor as you love yourself.

Enlighten me, o learned one, how shouting, "God damn America" is obedient to these commandments? It appears to me that you defend one whose beam is his cherishing and nursing of his victimhood.

I have neither judged nor condemned anyone in any comment made here. Jesus told us plainly what he expects of us, in simple unambiguous language, even in translation. If you are a Christian, then you believe you must obey these commandments of our Savior. If you do not believe you must obey, then though you call yourself Christian you are not one. Cursing others is in direct opposition to the behavior commanded of us by Christ. This is all easy, uncomplicated, understandable by a small child. There is nothing esoteric or rationalized here. All Christianity is liberation theology; it has no color. And this is not a judgement, but an admonishment from a brother in Christ that this behavior does not align with Christ's teaching.

Wright's Goddaughter?? LOL

McCain's eldest son was deployed in Iraq and another likely will go there - both of them Marine Corps officers.

Big difference between accepting an endorsement and "worshiping" at the feet of a racist like Wright.

cause you obviously don't care that he offended an entire race of people.

instead, you're just going to try and shove your skewed contextualization down the rest of our collective throats.

but it simply doesn't work that way. what he said was offensive to a lot of people. no matter what you say. no matter how you try and spin it.

here's an asian-american perspective for you to ponder:

http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/opinion/hongop.shtml

"McCain didn't attend Hagee's church for 20 years. Wright's god daughter? That makes her...not related to him. It's like saying that his neighbor got deployed."

It's official. You're clearly illiterate. Let me say it again: Jeremiah Wright HIMSELF is a Vietnam War veteran. Upon completing his service and returning home, he was denied equal rights and liberties -- the very American rights and liberties he thought he had been fighting for when he served in Vietnam.

While I can't condone everything Wright has said, I can understand his frustration and anger. When was the last time YOU gave your life fighting for freedoms that were denied to you upon YOUR return home?

Secondly, I hate to disappoint you, but all the latest polls are showing Obama is gaining on Clinton in Indiana going from a 9 point deficit last week to almost as much of a lead this today. Also, if you will remember, Obama gained 11 points on Clinton in Pa in the last two weeks of the race before losin by 9. Does that sound to you Wright is hurting Obama? hmmmm

Have you been listening to Rush, your god?

Guess not. Apparently, being a racist that associates with other bigots and racist and hanging out with terrorists on the side IS a bad thing?

Always was in my book.

BTW, you told me you served your country in Iraq. Did you kill in the name of God? Does not the Bible say the two commandments are to Love the Lord God with all your mind and all your heart, and to love your neighbor as yourself? How is killing your neighbor loving? And when it says to Love God, does it not mean to put only HIM first? Where do you do that when you cry out Wright is unAmerican and unpatriotic and you put America first from loving Rev. Wright. You try to point out others sins, you need to get the mote out of your own eye, then maybe you will see more clearly about others.

BTW, would you please quit hollering, as it seems unloving for such loving man of God to do.

Newblie shoots, and scores from the 3 line. All the way from downtown.

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/america

You can claim America is a nation but it is just as arrogant as you claiming others who do not see it your way are deficient. So, try to change the Merriam Webster online dictionary. LOL

"So it's okay as long as someone else is doing it?"

But isn't this the argument you use for your brothers of peace?

As far as what we do today, been to a Casino lately?

"America's just done it the best"

Have you ever seen what the conquistadors did to the Mexican Indians? Maybe if you but down your hate America handbook you might actually learn the truth about the americas.

- slavery,

- attempted genocide & breaking of every treaty w/Native Americans,

- the internment of Japanese Americans,

- the support of the apartheid S. African gov't,

- the turning away of Jewish refugees during WW-II,

- the support of despots like Augusto Pinochet, Manuel Noriega, Sadam Hussein,

- the selling of weapons to Iran while it's in a war with our ally Iraq,

- the overthrowing of the Iranian Prime Minister,

- segregation

- racism

- indefinite detention of US citizens

- torture.....???

I seriously doubt you approve of any of this, but if so, you are part of the problem & part of the reason why America must be called to atone for its sins.

Even if HRH BHO loses huge or small, Congress, unfortunately will still be there. Nice idea though.

This should be below ningyo's post.

I can't wait for the Dumbocratic convention. History has a funny way of repeating itself and if we are all patient the 'party of the people' will do everthing in its power to self-destruct, especially if they nominate BO. After exhibiting a lack of ability to compromise and govern would any intelligent American (not you, Dionys) be inclined to vote for BO in the general election? He's the radlibs feel-good poster boy to prove 'I,m no racist'. What a bunch of crap that is! Whatever your backgrounds or heritages, I doubt that the majority of Americans can relate to his heritage and background. And just what the hell do they (Dumbocrats) mean by 'change' anyway? They're turning it into a four-letter word like they did with 'choice'.

Semper fi.

2. Words are used to 'define' reality.

3. Words become perceptions/opinions that replaces reality.

4. The truth, perceptions and words about reality, is then relative to what one wants to accomplish.

You pray for God to show them his love and the err of their ways. You ask God to forgive them, for they too are sinners and have not been shown his light.

You do not condemn or damn them. You do not ask God to smite them. As this will only bring suffering upon you too.

Nope. That's you. He's made it clear where he stands in regards to this pastor and in terms of the great race divide that exists in our country.

Muslim sleeper? You are a nutjob.

Nut

Job

China, Russia, Saudi Arabia and other countries don't have racism? "

So it's okay as long as someone else is doing it? Bad policy. Especially if you're trying to stop nuclear proliferation.

""Did America commit genocide against American Indians"

Didn't every country in America's do this? Why is it only America that did this? "

America's just done it the best and continues to do it today. Most North American and South American nations, however, as you point out have committed similar genocide. Which still doesn't make it right.

Well. Considering that America's killed at least 600,000 (the count's supposed to have surpassed a million) according to Johns Hopkins' last count in a war started (apparently) for their own interests -- yes.

China, Russia, Saudi Arabia and other countries don't have racism?

"Until we address America's sins head on"

How exactly do you propose to do this? It's all in the history books isn't it?

"Did America commit genocide against American Indians"

Didn't every country in America's do this? Why is it only America that did this?

"there will always be tension about race"

As long as there are people like the good reverend there will be tension about race.

Who cares how many slaves blacks owned? What is your point? That it was okay for whites to own slaves because blacks did? Or blacks are degenerates for enslaving their own people? I how this relates to or detracts from the validity of my point. The tone of your post is that blacks are inferior to whites and they are soley responsible for their lower social and economic status in America. I am not suggesting that blacks have no responsibility for their own welfare but I also believe it would be naive to suggest that the playing field is level or that their aren't structural impediments. It isn't. Whites have dominated the culture here for the last 250 years. Blacks have only enjoyed equal legal status within our life time.

I do not defend this man on basis he is black, I defend him because you are falsely accusing him and because I think he is right.

BTW, thanks for your service. I would respectfully disagree with you that Jesus is not the last cause as he himself said he is the alpha and the omega. That means, to me, he is the beginning and the end of everything.

wright said "they brought the drugs in"

they would be reagan in his illegal effort to fund the contras

"then they build new prisons instead of new schools"...i dont think anyone can argue with that

"then they pass the 3 strike law"...again this is fact

his tone is unsettling but,he didnt lie

Not to you, I suppose. Or to all the people who tend to never look at things in context.

I just thought this needed to be repeated.

less & less about Obama. He definitely has a book in mind & this seems like a bookmaking tour. He is hurting Obama & though that's fine with me I don't see how Obama supporters are in turn defending Wright.

Obama is done anyway with his wife, his minister, his million man march pals & his rubbing elbows with the terrorist underground the die is cast on this guy. The vultures are hovering above the carcus it's just amatter of time!

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/column...

Some pretty picture eh? If she pulls off the nomination it'll be because she has acquired Lewinsky's taste for ... I'll leave the rest to your imagination...

Yesterday someone posted an url on another thread and it was THE MOST FUNDAMENTAL indictment of the kind of institutionalized racism we have grown up with and been nurtured in over literally centuries of cultivated discriminatory policy making and "colloquial" acceptance. Here it is again.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Curse_of_Ham