News – "I am not here for political reasons. I'm not a politician. ... I'm not running for the Oval Office. I've been running for Jesus for a long, long time and I'm not tired yet," he said to laughter and cheers.
TimALoftis: The link for this story has been redirected to the original source story. Please avoid breaking the middleman rule.
2008-04-27 21:13:53
dropkick
>>Chickens rust? Political commentary of that sort is inappropriate in the course of a sermon, in any case. Stick to the Bible...or run for office.
Political commentary? That's more of a "you reap what you sow" type of thing - which IS a Biblical reference. As in, "They will be known by the fruits of their labors."
So to take his SERMON & try to force it into a political discrediting of a candidate WHO DIDN'T EVEN DELIVER THE SERMON is just STOOOOPID!!!!!
tchef, the "snippets" wherein he damns the nation to which he owes his life and freedom are a great sufficiency of what he has to say. He is to me the perfect example of a person who has spoken so objectionably that I cannot hear anything else he has to say, no matter how right, generous, forgiving, whatever. Foolishness is largely what comes out of the mouths of fools, and even though there may be occasional wisdom, I don't hear it.
tkyrchnos, thanks for proving Rev. Wrights contention that it is people like you who say difference is deficient. Obviously, Rev. Wright's black church is deficient compared to yours and its understanding because you associate words like "fools", "occassional wisdom", "snippets", "so objectionably...no matter how right...". Your judgmental spirit has blinded you to thinking you are somehow superior in your spirituality. You are sort of like the guy who went in and prayed that he was thankful God did not make him like the other sinner also praying. Do you not know that the Bible says we ought not to think so highly of ourselves? Judge not unless you be judged.
BTW, the Rev. Wright served 6 honorable years in defense of his country and has earned the right to criticize it. I also honorable served. How about you? Do you have any service of a country you claim we owe our life to? We owe America nothing, Jesus everything.
HIS understanding of Christ's message and ministry IS deficient if he thinks he is propounding it or extending it with such claptrap. It is a spiritual work of mercy to admonish the sinner and also to instruct the ignorant, just as it is to comfort the afflicted. A Christian duty to our brothers, not a JUDGEMENT, such as cursing a whole nation is. I served 12 years in the Army, including Iraq Lunacy I. I am in the 8th generation to serve from my family, the 9th and 10th are now serving. The First Cause to which we owe everything, in my opinion, is God, but that is not the last cause to which we owe everything.
tkyrchncs, I am 3rd generation Navy, 20 years of service myself. My Dad was in WWII out among the U-boats. My cousin was torpedoed, one of thirteen survivors, out of 230 who perished. There are people who don't know what their families did; as former slaves and pressures that caused many to run for their lives to escape terrorist, such as KKK, unjust legal proceedings got disassociated from their families. Considering, the Continental Army was 1/3 African Descendants, and seeing that these people could not get business loans, be safe walking American streets, use bath rooms, go in the front door For Whites Only, attend colleges, or vote then you may think before this debt issue you refer to as "owing" is the first line of your argument. Rightfully, you have a good feeling to reject Rev. Wright if you have benefited. In that 8 Army generations you have relatives that could be Officers and Presidents, while others were segregated to fight a die for a country they owe.
Have you seen how this man lives? Have you seen his house, his income, his travels? Has he ever been turned away from the polls? This man owes the same as all Americans owe. We are ALL descended ultimately from Africans; we are all the descendants of slaves, and of kings. I have raised objection to ONE statement, not as objectionable, but as DESPICABLE. I have not said that he is bad, that his ministry is bad, that his church, denomination, race, religion, gender, or anything else about him is bad. Just this one thing, but this one thing is enough to close my ears to him if it is not repented of, and he appears to glory in it and in the attention it brings him. Others defend him on the basis of his race, and I believe THIS to be racist. You do not gain moral authority by the color of your skin.
Yes, I have seen how he lives. In his theology, he sees the kingdom as now, not later. Did you ever hear the scripture, 'judge not unless you be judged'? Don't you think this applies when you judge your brother in Christ despicable? Your judgment of his ministry is also judging. You say it is bad, and I say you are attacking his black church. What gives you the right to judge what he does as a pastor? Is God not the rightful judge? You even are so arrogant as to say he must repent from your idea of what is right and wrong. WOW. It is a good thing you are not God, but it is dangerous for you to look at another as a fool. Since you think it is merciful to admonish the sinner, then I say to you to look in a mirror and begin the admonishment, because you are really missing he target on this one.
I do not defend this man on basis he is black, I defend him because you are falsely accusing him and because I think he is right.
T, my man, I defend his right to speak, and I also defend your right to speak up in objection to what he said. Pay attention, don't want you to miss this subtle point; What I reject is a conversation that goes beyond what was said, on to who Rev. Wright is, or what he has, and mostly surely the character assassinations of people who call him friend and minister. I am not fuzzy that many are so zealous to cast dispersions on Obama, the Church or anyone that isn't whistling Dixie; pot shots gone to far at liberation theology or what some call the Ole Time Religion, that was around since the Under Ground Railroad, that brought on change. The madness can spread from an individual to an entire group. You were fine on the topic of upstanding generations of Army men, until the mention they discriminated; righteously thinking some owed but discovered they paid a debt on the front lines and it was no mistake bullets were flying. P.S. Ever "seen" a segregated military cemetery?
How have you inferred that any members of my family discriminated? And please note that I have not mentioned any politics, or the matter of race other than to deny its significance, or addressed any other matter than a specific comment in the context of SCRIPTURE, not any theology. I remember the segregated South. I was the one who was ready to go to war with my parents and my whole town because my best friend and I could not go to first grade together. Racial prejudice makes no more sense to me now than it did when I was 6, and I mean that on the simplest and most fundamental level. Thr difference between myself and black Americans is exactly the same as the difference between me and brown-eyed Americans or blonde or Native Americans, SIMPLE GENETICS. Other differences between people are the ones that matter, they are learned and not a part of anyone's race.
Thanks again for proving his point- "HIS understanding of Christ's message and ministry IS deficient" So,you do see yourself as superior. Now, just how is that attitude fit in with admonishing sinners. Where does "until you take the mote out of your own eye, should you try to remove your brother's mote" come in?
BTW, thanks for your service. I would respectfully disagree with you that Jesus is not the last cause as he himself said he is the alpha and the omega. That means, to me, he is the beginning and the end of everything.
Two commandments:
1. Love God with your whole heart, soul and mind.
2. Love your neighbor as you love yourself.
Enlighten me, o learned one, how shouting, "God damn America" is obedient to these commandments? It appears to me that you defend one whose beam is his cherishing and nursing of his victimhood.
Tkychnos, I think your statement was analogous, a paraphrase to the definition of what a Bigot is. You really don't want to go down the path of "owe". There is a debt that is still pending; and you don't know enough history to connect the dots to freedom . . . did you say? You can get some of that gum for a dirty mouth when you start talking about owing. People like Reverend Wright has you a full measure on the subject of owing. You may not want to hear it; that someone with their head in the sand, and that is often the case when you are trying not to own up to your debt. You need to be more aware. Let that line stay on the movies until you can talk about Rosewood or Greenwood.
You accuse me of ignorance and bigotry, but you don't know me. This has happened to me before because I refuse to recognize anyone as different from me because of skin color, except in matters where pigment is concerned. I expect persons who call themselves Christian to at least attempt to follow the example of our Lord Jesus and to apologize and make amends when they fail. Jesus was quite explicit in his commandments; there are only two. Wright's speech in question does not support or follow either one. I have been aware of and opposed to racism since before I ever went to elementary school, and can discuss Rosewood or Greenwood or Memphis or Mobile or Wounded Knee or number of other horrific incidents in our history. For these I neither owe nor am I owed anything beyond remembrance and the duty to pass on knowledge, in the hope that the present and future can avoid repeating the worst of the past.
We accuse you of bigotry because of what you are saying. It is bigotry. Just look back at all my posts to you, and you will get the idea. You are also a hyppocrite. So, again, where is your love for this apparent perceived enemy, Jeremiah Wright? Where are your prayers for him?
BTW, you told me you served your country in Iraq. Did you kill in the name of God? Does not the Bible say the two commandments are to Love the Lord God with all your mind and all your heart, and to love your neighbor as yourself? How is killing your neighbor loving? And when it says to Love God, does it not mean to put only HIM first? Where do you do that when you cry out Wright is unAmerican and unpatriotic and you put America first from loving Rev. Wright. You try to point out others sins, you need to get the mote out of your own eye, then maybe you will see more clearly about others.
ML, start to READ, and cease to READ INTO. I have in a number of places referred to Wright as a brother in Christ or myself as his Christian brother. Admonishing a brother Christian for unChrtistlike behavior is love. I have not wished for any judgement on him or prayed for anything like that or called him an enemy. These are YOUR assumptions and YOUR words, not mine. There are NO implications in anything I have posted; I am quite plain-spoken.
Though it is between me and God, I will tell you I have never killed anyone, or tried to. That does not mean that I would never do so; I have just never been in a situation where I deemed it the lesser of evils. My nation comes before any individual member of it, including myself. Nowhere am I commanded to love others MORE than myself. Again, there is nothing you can say to justify damning my nation. It is inexcusable. And before you start again, please note that "inexcusable" does not mean or imply "unforgivable".
Tkyie, Try to make your statement again without thinking about owing. Right, I don't know you, but what you said was out there. That righteousness did nothing for me. If you think that Reverend Wright owes silence and submission for the right to seem like a good American, that is the wrong signal. Re-read your statement to see you went down the wrong path, causing you to side step now. Just say you made a boo-boo, I'd rather you just say that. Try not to make statements like Reverend Wright that are offensive, unless they are constructive. Recall Jesus talking to the publicans, see Matthew 9:11-13; so by example, Wright did act to help the nation to repent. Good he didn't follow the one of driving them from the temple. Back to you, that owe thing could make someone feel there are Masters and Lords, superior beings who have paid the debt and have dominion over those lessor things who don't realize the rose tinted view. You are there with Obama and his "Bitter" Moment.
There is a price to live in a free society, and we must all pay it in one way or another. Wright is not, as demonstrated by the manner in which he lives, a victim of our society or our government. I encourage his calling down our government or our society for its sins, I even consider it a part of his responsibility as a Christian minister. I admonish him as a fellow Christian that condemnation (damning) goes beyond the pale of his Christian authority, and is in direct conflict with the commandments of our Savior, and will only serve to alienate and divide. I support his right as an American to speak as he wishes, but if he wishes to be respected as a man of God instead of just as any loud-mouth citizen, then he should set a Christ-like example.
Tky, I can go for the last part, about respect and all. Mindful he was in his church, and I see he's not there now . . . his opinion was permitted, if not appreciated. I can think of several noted ministers who are known for advancing the notion that God will damn what they don't like; some who's name start with H. Wright shouldn't do it either, but that is off the subject of this "paying" in a society. That's an issue for the IRS. This is April and I still remember. If you are questioning his allegiance, then you may be as judgmental as you accuse him. We are working toward a more perfect union, considering that this nation has not always behaved by acting with parity, compassion and against things that "God do hate", all seven of them. You surely can go out there and find the things you can change, accept those you can't and know the difference. Vote Obama and see how change feels.
I assure you that if I am able to make it to the polls, I will vote for the nominee of the Democratic Party, just as I have for every election since 1972. I did not vote for Obama in the primary, but if he gets the nod I will proudly vote for him for President. His preacher does not reflect so badly on him to me as to some people; if he's doing his job in the legislature he's not home for many Sunday sermons anyway. Wright rubs me the wrong way for reasons of religion, not politics.
gotta agree with you on that one dropkick.
just what is this guy doing?
perhaps he wants to really get this all out of the way before Obama takes on McCain. because when the GOP tries to bring this up again (and they will, bet on it) it will be beyond flogging a dead horse, we'll all roll our collective eyes as we move forward.
Unfortunately not. Negative memes have a way of sticking, just like the whole 'Obama is Muslim' thing. Wholly discredited, sure, but in a recent poll 13% of respondents think Obama in a Muslim.
Heck, my mother won't vote for him because she still harbors a 'sneaking suspicion'.
you're right. negativity does stick. but by the time the GOP brings this up again it will just be broken reocrd material. no one will have their mind changed by it. after the goal will be to shame people for voting for obama even though they don't attribute one man's beliefs to another man and don't believe Wright is some sort of anti-american secret agent.
so we need to call it out for what it is: swiftboating.
in another recent poll, 25% said McCain's age is a relevant concern.
Wright seems more interested in defending himself and cares
less & less about Obama. He definitely has a book in mind & this seems like a bookmaking tour. He is hurting Obama & though that's fine with me I don't see how Obama supporters are in turn defending Wright.
Obama is done anyway with his wife, his minister, his million man march pals & his rubbing elbows with the terrorist underground the die is cast on this guy. The vultures are hovering above the carcus it's just amatter of time!
lum-chate, "he is hurting Obama" Really? How? I think you just wish it would hurt him. The polls tell a different story. In Pa, Obama came from a 20 point deficit to a 9 point loss. In Indianna, in one week, Obama has come from a 9 point deficit to lead in many of these polls. Obama still maintains a 15 to 20 point lead in North Carolina. So, despite all the publicity over Wright before Pa and now after, the polls don't seem to support lum-Chate's view that Wright is hurting Obama. It is just wishful thinking. Obama will be nominated as Clinton cannot catch him, and he will be elected President as McCain will be exposed for who he is when the Democratic nomination is settled.
I watched a lot of Wright's keynote address.
Like the guy or not, he is a brilliant orator.
Wright gave a lot of examples of the "different does not mean deficient" theme, and he touched on pedagogy as a prime example. The one-size-fits-all school system we have now, which was designed for the Industrial Age, has proven itself to be antiquated and designing a system that lends itself to various learning styles seems like a crucial step to ensuring all children can reach their potential.
I really liked Wright demonstrating cultural bias in the US. He simply asked what do you think of when you hear the term "classical music." Who does not think of European composers, like Mozart? Of course, if someone created a course that dealt with African Classical Music, plenty of people would probably ask, why does ethnicity have to be brought into it?
It was a great speech to hear. One may quibble on some substance of the points made, but the technique is masterful.
I agree Atheis - Whenever anything of this type is in play I tend to watch fox. I was shocked at the lack of doom and gloom for Obama. They were like this is good for Hill, the thing is He said to Obama if you were to win the presidency I will get on you as I am getting on the current administration. He said his beef is not with America, but the right of this nation think they are America and therefore if you have a problem with them you have a problem with America. The other 55% of us really doesn't matter. While people think the Aids comments are far-fetched, we have done this before with try looking up the Tuskegee experiment.
"The Tuskegee Syphilis Experiment
The United States government did something that was wrongâ;;deeply, profoundly, morally wrong. It was an outrage to our commitment to integrity and equality for all our citizens. . . . clearly racist.
â;;President Clinton's apology for the Tuskegee Syphilis Experiment to the eight remaining survivors, May 16, 1997
For forty years between 1932 and 1972, the U.S. Public Health Service (PHS) conducted an experiment on 399 black men in the late stages of syphilis. These men, for the most part illiterate sharecroppers from one of the poorest counties in Alabama, were never told what disease they were suffering from or of its seriousness. Informed that they were being treated for "bad blood,"1 their doctors had no intention of curing them of syphilis at all.
Here is a link for those of you who choose to speak from a standpoint of knowledge and not ignorance!
http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0762136.html
"Here is a link for those of you who choose to speak from a standpoint of knowledge and not ignorance!"
Soooooo
since "they" have done it before, "they" must have done it now?
Speaking of ignorance....
Canada better look out, since "they" took the Indians land, "they" must be planning to do the same with canada...
"since "they" have done it before, "they" must have done it now?"
Well...yeah! After Tuskegee, would YOU be fully willing to trust the government with a needle? Particularly if that government had once considered you 3/5 of a human, made you drink from different water fountains, sit at the back of the bus, deny you equal education or the right to vote. How about a society that STILL has institutionalized racism?
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have you seen hagee's sermons? he preaches armageddon with huge photos of nuke mushroom clouds behind him talking about the end of days and how we have to invade iran.
he's straight up crazy.