News – # Story Highlights # No one has claimed responsibility for attack # The blast and subsequent fire happened in the men's section of the mosque # Eight people were killed and 66 wounded, Iran's state-run television reports # The explosion happened in the southern Iranian city of Shiraz
CIA?
My thoughts exactly. I guess they are not in the habit of claiming responsibility.
Of course! We all know Muslims don't kill Muslims, right?
Clearly, the surge in Iran has failed and there is no political progress. It's time to pull out! Oh, wait, we aren't in Iran.
Are you sure?
Are you?
No, I'm just guessing like you.
I'm not guessing. There is no evidence to suggests that the USA is in Iran.
The absence of evidence is not evidence for the absence.
What? Is this clever to you?
Clever? I don't know. True? Yes.
Can you name all the countries where the CIA operates? The fact that you don't have evidence of their presence in a particular country doesn't mean that they don't carry out missions there, does it?
> The fact that you don't have evidence of their presence in a particular country doesn't mean that they don't carry out missions there, does it?
Of course not. Similarly, I do not have any evidence that CANDIDA was the head planner of this mosque bombing... but absence of evidence is not evidence for the absence, is it?
Yup, that's the fallacy in that statement. Its true but it can be used to implicate absolutely anyone. In this case it ended up being an accident caused by munitions kept within the mosque.
"An explosion in a southern Iranian mosque that killed 10 people and wounded 160 after evening prayers Saturday night was caused by negligent handling of live munitions, not a bomb as first suspected, Iranian media reported."
No, it's not a fallacy, and it can't implicate anyone; it just expresses uncertainty. You really didn't know that I was not the head planner of the mosque bombing until the facts came out about what really happened.
I've never said that the the absence of evidence implicated the CIA; I clearly stated that I was guessing. It just didn't exonerate them either.
Actually it is a fallacy in an argument if you actually try to use it to say it WAS this organization doing it. You were arguing it quite possibly was unless I misunderstood something in "My thoughts exactly. I guess they are not in the habit of claiming responsibility" in response to nikki's wondering if it was the CIA. That is an implication of the CIA, a statement that you believed THEY did it. Thus, you then argued that an absence of evidence is not the evidence of absence. A true statement, but one that did absolutely nothing for your argument except to say it was possible. For the form of a debate it added nothing other then to say that both possibilities, in accords to evidence, were equally possible. Its an argument that is infinitely fallible if your goal is to state the CIA did it as it applies equally to both sides adding nothing to the actual debate. Not so much fallible as a pointless statement.
You argue well, but if you follow the thread from nikkibabe's comment, it is clear that I did not use that statement as confirmation of CIA role. Nikkibabe him/herself used a question mark, expressing doubt. The CIA did come to my mind too, but I was in no way certain of it. I said: "No, I'm just guessing like you."
To this crghss replied: "I'm not guessing. There is no evidence to suggests that the USA is in Iran."
My response referred to his, reminding him that the fact that he'd seen no evidence, does not prove that the USA was not in Iran. This wouldn't have been the first time when the population was not fully informed.
My guess about CIA involvement was completely independent of this statement. It was based mostly on Mr. Bush's and Mr. Cheney's recent comments regarding Iran.
''but absence of evidence is not evidence for the absence, is it?''
Did that annoy you so when Rumsfeld was singing that tune?
There are known knowns, there are known unknowns, and there are unknown unknowns, there are-heck I forget how it goes.
Knowing that you don't know something is usually the beginning of wisdom
Being sure that you know something [the WMD's are in this area right here] is usually the beginning of folly
I don't know if that's original, so don't quote me please
Your correct, its not. But don't you think we should get some evidence before we condemn? This goes for both sides.
"Fars initially reported the explosion was caused by a home-made bomb.
Provincial Police Commander Ali Moaeyri later told Fars it "was not sabotage."
"Some live munitions may have been left behind at that location which could have been the cause of the explosion," Moaeyri said.
The police commander said the munitions were apparently left behind after a "Sacred Defense" exhibition was held at the mosque, which also serves as a cultural center."
Now, the CIA didn't do it. The Israeli didn't. It was an accident.
That's one thing we have on our side - Muslims kill Muslims
At least the bad ones.... all the muslims I know are as good people as any Christian I know
I agree. Muslims say the same about Jews and Jews say the same about muslims but they are all normal people and a small minotiry is the issue. its all stereotyping a whole nation because couple of hundreds of uneducated cavemens who call them selves muslim decided to commit suicide and kill innocent people..so because of these hunders of people all america called the 1.5 muslims bad? South america and Asia dont have anything against muslims because these terrorists havent done any bombings yet but if they did, should the whole muslim nation be hated and announce a war against them like they did in Afganistan too? did the war even help? the same group who bombed 9/11 are even worse now, so even if they waged a war? osama bin ladin and his friends are still hiding somewhere so wage ware against these specific people and not MUSLIMS
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I wonder who is responsible for this?
Maybe the Iranians will realize that when playing with fire they can be burned. If they sponsor terror against Sunni groups, the Sunnis can pay them back in the same coin. Saudi Arabia has plenty of money to spread around.
LOL it took 3 posts for one of the usual suspects to blame the Evil Bush Administration
And why? With what? No evidence. No motive. Nothing but their own little hate.
Now lets think. Shia hates Sunni. Sunni hates Shia. Shia makes "sermon denounced Bahai and Wahabi faiths". Sunni has killed thousands of people all over the world with suicide bombers and car bombs. Now who could have done this. Hhmm. Who? Who could have pulled this off? Who would want to do this?
I know, the CIA!!!!!!
crghss:"Sunni has killed thousands of people all over the world"
I guess it's the wakeup call for the Iranians to announce their worldwide war on terror, and perhaps attack a country that had nothing to do with it.
You see it was a logical thought process. We know you can't comprehend this, I tried to help, but it's no use.
I'll admit I have no idea what the hades you and Slate are talking about.
Thanks for trying to help tho
Having a hard time keeping up?
Look at the (formerly) third post by Niki, you'll figure it out.
gothca
I think if the U.S. or Israel was behind it, there'd be no doubt about it.
Answer:
"Fars initially reported the explosion was caused by a home-made bomb.
Provincial Police Commander Ali Moaeyri later told Fars it "was not sabotage."
"Some live munitions may have been left behind at that location which could have been the cause of the explosion," Moaeyri said.
The police commander said the munitions were apparently left behind after a "Sacred Defense" exhibition was held at the mosque, which also serves as a cultural center."
At least we won't be seeing people attacking anyone over this, anymore (except for perhaps the stupidity of leaving live munitions sitting around like that).
As of today only one born out the blue sky group has accepted responsibility for that how ever their claim has been considered "very" naive and "laughable" including even some professional Iran-Haters among certain religious fanatics. This claim was sent by an EMAIL !! and their claim does match the facts much of which are not known.From what I have been reading in Iranian papers interviewing the by standers, witnesses , members of the volunteers who run this Hosseinieh, I can add it up this way:
1.This Hosseinieh in the past and sort of in permanent basis has put some armaments that were used or captured during Iran-Iraq war on display. There has been LIVE ammunitions in
this place and there was LIVE ammunition at the time of incident such as mine, and others.
2.The group responsible for this Hosseinieh has been numerously warned about keeping live ammunition in the place. //
continued
3.The sponsoring the exhibit now is split into two , one side claiming it was not the ammunition on the display that went off and the other members claiming it was.
4.One of the members said that place where the explosive went off was only 30 centimeters (almost a foot ) deep, a bomb would have caused a lot bigger hole.
5.There was some attempt at first to blame this on the Iraian Bahaees and formerly Saddam-backed, now US backed Iranian terrorist organization MKO. However Bahaees as much as they despise the groups sponsoring the exhibit, are not known to use violence against their opponents and MKO is more of a ghost than a real threat.
6.My gut feeling is that it was ammunition that was there on a permanent display that went off. There were many shrapnels(from the war)near the live ammunitions and after the explosion those shrapnels acted as just like they are supposed to act, cause more injury and damage.
7.The news is still coming out and accusations and counter accusations are plenty. But I can already see some people are doing their best to cover their own a s s es .
8.This has given a perfect opportunity for those who sow discord among different sects of Muslims to pit Sunni and Shias against each other as is obvious from some posts here however those who advocate dissention among Shias and Sunnis , have historically proven to be neither Shias nor Sunnis and Muslims are aware of this. This is not the first time that kooks are coming out of the woodwork and it wont be the last time either.