Starting Tuesday, plastic bags illegal at big S.F. grocery stores »
Posted by: TechnologyExpert 9 months, 2 weeks agoAttention San Francisco shoppers: Plastic grocery store bags are going, going, gone. Starting Tuesday, large grocery stores in the city can no longer use the traditional plastic bags that are a staple of the supermarket checkout line, as a city ordinance passed earlier this year to ban the bags takes effect.
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Bruedaddy9 months, 2 weeks ago
Good!~
I hate plastic bags. They put 3 things in the bag and you end up brining home 15 bags for very few groceries. I have to physically grab the bag and hold it open for the cashier to fill till I feel it's full.
IF the stores would offer to recycle then MAYBE.
Paper is Bio-degradeable and a much better choice for me personally.
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markmawn29 months, 2 weeks ago
In my area, Safeway and Fred Meyer are the worst offenders. They separate hot and cold items in separate bags, and double stack them in another bag. If you ask for paper, they only have bags without handles, so you cannot carry more than two without a struggle. Perhaps they do that on purpose to keep their courtesy clerks busy taking your stuff out.
I always reuse the paper bags from other stores, and I recently bought a couple of Whole Foods totes from WF for a buck each. I get a discount on each purchase for using them.
See, there are incentives to change.
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earthlingerer9 months, 2 weeks ago
I don't know how, but maybe the oil company nationaliazation would be a good idea for the public.
And we do get the bags from oil.
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AntiNeoCon9 months, 2 weeks ago
I agree, plastic bags are a pain. Like you said, 2 or 3 items then yet another bag. You end up carrying like 9 bags when 3 or 4 should do.
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IanFraigun9 months, 2 weeks ago
Glad to see it happen. Whenever given a chance I take paper instead. I can buy $100 and leave with 3 paper bags. Spend the same amount on the same items and I leave with 8-10 plastic bags which I compress down to 3-4 before putting them in the car.
If only those who fill them realized the waste of oil maybe they would work without the extreme waste. When filling plastic the store workers don't even look at what is being put where. I can take paper and all frozen items are packed together as should be. If its plastic the frozen items are spread across 3 or more different bags.
Lets all follow the lead of San Francisco on this one. For this time the got the absolute right idea.
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earthlingerer9 months, 2 weeks ago
If only the people who used paper bags instead of reusing canvas or others would simply realize the waste of oil cutting down trees, and then REprocessing post-consumer waste to make paper bags knew the entire cost of it all.
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1-2-Oscar9 months, 2 weeks ago
Because stores in San Francisco will now be subjected to different rules than those in other cities, chain stores (which do most of the business) will incur additional expenses in providing particular supplies to their outlets in that city. If these additional costs are not recovered through higher prices, the chains may eventually be forced to move their businesses outside the city limits. This would, in turn, begin a process of erosion in the municipal tax base, higher unemployment, and fewer available goods and services. The quality of life in San Francisco may ultimately be hurt, rather than helped, if such particularist legislation becomes common there.
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earthlingerer9 months, 2 weeks ago
Wow, here in europe the EXACT OPPOSITE happened!
The bags were then made to have a bar code on them, where they could be scanned for purchase at the checkout. Net sales tax was generated.
The bags were reused more often, and frequently, reducing environmental cleanup costs.
The stores made a little extra money, tax revenue increased, and the place got cleaner.
Come to think of it, the only thing that changed was our money... It's worth more compared to the dollar now than it was then.
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1-2-Oscar9 months, 2 weeks ago
The San Francisco ordinance BANS paper bags. It doesn't put bar codes on them. It doesn't collect tax on them. The stores will be using PAPER bags. That certainly does not seem to parallel the European experience you describe.
But I will continue to hold to the idea that if the city makes doing business there less profitable, then stores are more likely to locate outside their limits.
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afoaf9 months, 2 weeks ago
Bruedaddy, the stores DO offer ways to recycle.
Nearly every grocery chain in SF has a big bin in the front
where you can bring your bags.
Furthermore, they can also be put into your home's recycling
bin or used again as trashcan liners or even another trip to
the grocery store.
I would wager that the majority of bag waste they see on city streets is not from Safeway, but from the corner markets and liquor stores that are NOT presently being forced to stop using them.
This is just another hare-brained idea from the same board of supervisors that passed a handgun ban in the county of san francisco in an effort to fight gun crimes...nevermind the fact that gun bans have almost universally NOT reduced crime.
It's indicative of the kind of idiotic liberalism that chokes that city's government.
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Bruedaddy9 months, 2 weeks ago
yeah well that may be true in your area not mine.
no bags in city recycling - no bottles with the code (6) on them.
I think only 1 store offers recycling and it's not near me but I do trek there with a LOAD sometimes.
I do reuse them sometimes even for other stuff.
So ALL good ideas! I try.
as for gun ban well, that's their problem. They "let" it happen.
And if the citizens want it differently then get to the ballot box.
"idiotic liberalism that chokes that city's government"
I just think that comment is way off mark. Why do people ALWAYS equate doing ANYTHING good for the environment liberal?
I fail to see how it will choke anything......
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earthlingerer9 months, 2 weeks ago
If you lived in a large metropolitan area, which you obviously don't, you would see that the majority of bags are branded with the leading grocery stores.
Liquor stores prefer that handy six-pack paper bag.
But yeah, I can see where you're coming from, linking idiotic and liberalism... seeing it was liberalism that made the US Constitution able to exist as a living document, not just some thought locked away in some serf's skull.
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afoaf9 months, 2 weeks ago
I used to live in SF and still live in a major metro area and my experience differs from yours.
Furthermore, your attempt to refute my comment on San Francisco's idiocy is a non sequitur.
And to the previous poster, I did not make that comment strictly because this current measure is related to environmental issues, I made the comment because San Francisco politics ARE choked by liberal idiocy. Please refer to my first sentence.
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Bonded9 months, 2 weeks ago
Agreed. Do we remember how we got here? Plastic bags would save trees, reduce breakage due to moisture, were stronger and were easily recyclable. Now we are going back? In my town, the bags are made of type 2 plastic which is collected by the recycling truck that faithfully picks up once a week. The great progressive city of SF can't do the same? It appears the city council is more interested in control rather than solutions.
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jumpmaster9 months, 2 weeks ago
They are banning plastic shopping bags and handing out condoms. Maybe they will break even. Or maybe they will start handing out condoms made of recycled cardboard. That will really test their green committment.
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earthlingerer9 months, 2 weeks ago
Recycled paper bags (one of the more suitable uses for recycled paper and wood products) save trees, are more durable to sharp plastic corners on packaging, and are entirely biodegradeable, if not recycled.
I think it's funny when people mention "my town's" recycling, when it's really the profitable service of the same people who collect the garbage for money, but get the recyclables of paper, plastic, glass, aluminum and copper.
I wonder why they do it for free?
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Teagen9 months, 2 weeks ago
Couple things here. First, that's the city that wanted us to stop using paper bags. Plastic-bag manufacturers and garbage experts say that in the long run, plastic wins over paper. Paper bags are easier to recycle, but they weigh 10 times as much. They use more energy and cause more waste in the process of manufacturing. A paper bag eats up almost three times as much energy in the manufacturing process. In a dry landfill, paper bags don't degrade any faster than plastic bags. In a normal, well-run landfill, paper bags do not biodegrade any faster over at least 40 years than plastic.
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markmawn29 months, 2 weeks ago
Yeah, but I can use the paper bag in my worm bin, and it is good for controlling weeds in my garden, and containing moisture. Plastic bags can make other products when recycled, but they have to be recycled first.
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Teagen9 months, 1 week ago
You're missing the key term here. Dry land fill. Several years ago, they ran into problems when McDonald's stopped using foam. The land fills had to start buying the foam peanuts for the air spaces they offered for the breakdown of materials. In the new dry fill solution, paper can't break down.
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earthlingerer9 months, 2 weeks ago
"Plastic-bag manufacturers and garbage experts say that in the long run, plastic wins over paper."
Well, at least that's two independent, objective, and purely un-invested parties lending their thoughts.
I have to think, "if I were a plastic bag manufacturer or a guy who's business is a continuing business in moving garbage per cubic meter, what would I think about paper vs. plastic?"
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abntv9 months, 2 weeks ago
Yeh,,and when I break my beer bottle in a plastic bag it doesnt leak all over my lap and cause me to swerve all over the road.
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NewsLine9 months, 2 weeks ago
Good, Must be applied all over the world to mitigate pollution.
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johnb300m9 months, 2 weeks ago
I'm not at all one for government banning stuff, but this seems like a good idea. Those plastic bags are ridiculous. I am an offender since I use them all the time, but luckily my local Jewel store does have depots for recycling them, which I do every few months.
Trader Joe's already does wonders with their paper bags that have sturdy handles, why can other stores not do that? Paper is far more renewable, biodegrades quickly too.
Just look at this plastic bag island in the Pacific.
http://www.mindfully.org/Plastic/Ocean/Trashing...
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johnb300m9 months, 2 weeks ago
I'm not at all one for government banning stuff, but this seems like a good idea. Those plastic bags are ridiculous. I am an offender since I use them all the time, but luckily my local Jewel store does have depots for recycling them, which I do every few months.
Trader Joe's already does wonders with their paper bags that have sturdy handles, why can other stores not do that? Paper is far more renewable, biodegrades quickly too.
Just look at this plastic bag island in the Pacific.
http://www.mindfully.org/Plastic/Ocean/Trashing...
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joeblowe9 months, 2 weeks ago
Plastic bags are quite recyclable. IF they actually ARE recycled.
It might be helpful to post up a chart showing how much energy/oil is actually used to MAKE one of those plastic bags vs the amount of energy/oil it takes to make a paper bag. Last I saw, it was just about break even. Remember, just because a paper bag isn't MADE from plastic, doesn't mean that oil wasn't required sometime in the production to get it made.
I will agree though, the damn things DO seem to get loose in the landscape and that really annoys me. You can find the stupid things on the bottom of the ocean - along with all kinds of other trash. Damn filthy, disgusting, littering humans anyway!
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earthlingerer9 months, 2 weeks ago
That's kind of a trick answer... do we count the oil to be used as energy to make the bag and the energy used to power the manufacturing as two different things, or one thing?
Remember, they do need the oil to cut and transport the wood, but everything else could be done nuclear, or some other non-fossil source of energy for production, however unlikely...
How much of the cost of developing and launching the satellite used to scan the earth looking for oil deposits should be allotted to the plastic as compared to the paper? What cost in terms of oppression and war?
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joeblowe9 months, 2 weeks ago
And what cost in deforestation, and CO2 and other emissions, etc. Just my point: Plastic bags (which really don't contain all that much petroleum - crumple one up, you'll see.) don't necessarily cause more harm to the environment than paper. Reusable cloth bags are probably best, but how many do you have? Did you remember to take them all with you? Shop at Sam's club, they don't give you ANY bags.
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earthlingerer9 months, 2 weeks ago
SF, in terms of government expenditures, already has a rule for that in offices.
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