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Palestinians: U.S. Promises Embargo End »

Posted by: Alexia 1 year, 2 months ago

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The U.S. strengthened its offer of support for President Mahmoud Abbas on Saturday, telling him an international aid embargo against the Palestinians would end as soon as he forms a new government without Hamas, aides to Abbas and a Western diplomat said. The United States and European Union issued statements expressing backing for Abbas in light of the upheaval that has remade the Palestinian territories, but they said no decision had been reached on lifting the embargo.

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Comments So Far: 197

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libsRfunny1 year, 2 months ago

This isn't going to sit well with the anti-Semites who claim the U.S. is a shill for Israeli interests. Also won't sit well with fools like Carter who say Bush is the worst president ever at foreign policy.
Bush already has proven himself far more effective than Clinton ever hoped to be. Albanians recently proved that.
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  el4sail1 year, 2 months ago
  
  Bush already has proven himself far more effective than Clinton ever hoped to be. Albanians recently proved that.
  *********
  Yes the albanians stole his watch..
  that way thanks to the albanians he can say the foreign policy disasters didnt happen on his watch.
  
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    KeyserSooze1 year, 2 months ago
    
    "Yes the albanians stole his watch.."
    You mean the watch he put in his pocket, and then was wearing the next day?
    
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      el4sail1 year, 2 months ago
      
      The Guy is so stupid he probably has 2 dozen timexes on airforce 1.
      
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        KeyserSooze1 year, 2 months ago
        
        "The Guy is so stupid he probably has 2 dozen timexes on airforce 1."
        I'd say the stupid ones are the bush haters who have to make up lies about him.
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        foksipayne1 year, 2 months ago
        
        Look, el4sail is a kook even to the lefties. No use arguing with him. It's ppl like him the make the search for truth and justice a sham. He spouts so much rhetoric that ppl automatically shut down at the sight of his posts.I even found myself AGREEING with a Republican, who is against MOST of my opinions.
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        blowback1 year, 2 months ago
        
        But el4sail is right.
        The watch was stolen.
        It was shown in slow motion from a few different camera angles.
        Two hands grabbed his left forearm.
        A second later his watch was gone.
        He had no time to unstrap it and then put it in his pocket.
        His right arm was raised the whole time getting all touchy feely.
        (Since when does Bush do that!?! Everybody's getting mushy over Albania's new US military bases, I guess.)
        I doubt he could take it off under these circumstances.
        Showing a watch the next day doesn't mean a thing.
        A hand-picked crowd for a Bush public appearance takes on new meaning.
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      Obaku1 year, 2 months ago
      
      Ok then - the Albanians love him, but he was worried they were going to steal his watch?
      He loves Albanians so much, he wanted maximum skin-on-skin contact? We should be glad he didn't take off his shirt too?
      Did Albanian enthusiasm pinch his wristie? Are the offenders in Gitmo?
      There is no postive spin to go to.
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        foksipayne1 year, 2 months ago
        
        LMAO...Take his shirt off...(chuckle)
        That was funny!!!
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        KeyserSooze1 year, 2 months ago
        
        Take your pick. You're desperate for some way to spin this to make a case that Bush did something wrong, so have at it.
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        ramblingwreck1 year, 2 months ago
        
        "You're desperate for some way to spin this to make a case that Bush did something wrong, so have at it."
        You're right. Bush could develop a cure for cancer and people would complain about the cancer researchers that were no longer employed.
        
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  SultanME1 year, 2 months ago
  
  I'm not sure why you think so, this just shows the magnitude of hypocrisy Bush and his Neocons possess. They insisted that there be a democracy and a democratically elected Goverment in Palestine. The elections resulted in a landslide victory for Hamas and ever since then Bush has done his BEST to get rid of that democratically elected Goverment. But its the same story everywhere Lebanon, Egypt, etc etc. Its only a Democracy if Bush LIKES the results of the elections.
  It isn't that you (in the west) don't stick to your values, it is that you have NO Values to start with. Hypocrisy rules all your Ideologies, ideas and so called values.
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    el-jefe1 year, 2 months ago
    
    Please be honest here.
    Would the last Democrat President or any of the current Democrat candidates for President oppose democracy in any nation, including Palestine?
    Would any of them oppose replacing a non-elected leader in any nation with an elected leader?
    What would any of them have said if the election that put a majority of Hamas representatives into Parliment had happened on their watch?
    What do you think their response will be if any of their "pet" nations (nations that are considered examples of successful Democrat foriegn policy) elect a government that is tyrannical?
    Should popular elections return the Taliban to power in Afghanistan on their watch, what do you think their reaction would be?
    Should popular elections place an extreme Shiite theocracy with strong ties to Iran in power in Iraq, what do you think their reaction would be?
    Should Hamas sweep the next presidential election, etc...?
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      Thinker221 year, 2 months ago
      
      The honest answer to all these questions is pretty simple:
      Neither a Democratic nor a Republican US President would oppose ANY elected leadership of ANY state if this elected leadership is peaceful. Somehow SultanME and others with similar arguments forget the simple fact that the US opposed ONLY those who attacked the US or other countries no matter how their leaders came to power.
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        badnootka1 year, 2 months ago
        
        But all the questions and examples given by El Jefe are about democracies electing governments that are hostile to the west and in general to their own people. I'm not sure how a democrat in the white house would treat a foreign government that is avowedly anti-west. Should we engage them? They all show the willingness to talk as long as it produces the results they are looking for and will totally ignore all that is not in their interest. You cannot negotiate with these types of governments. They will say anthing to appease you and do exactly the opposite all the while denying same. The US does it as does the EU and every country. And on the same thread. HOw come you choose to chastise the US only for their stance on this palestinian matter. THe story says the EU and moderate arab states all support Abbas and fattah over Hamas. HOw about equal time for railing against those countries, or do you just hate the US that much?
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        Thinker221 year, 2 months ago
        
        Was your reply addressed to me? If so can you clarify a bit what you're trying to say?
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        blowback1 year, 2 months ago
        
        > Neither a Democratic nor a Republican US President would oppose ANY elected leadership of ANY state if this elected leadership is peaceful. Somehow SultanME and others with similar arguments forget the simple fact that the US opposed ONLY those who attacked the US or other countries no matter how their leaders came to power.
        .
        Dr Mohammad Mossadegh's was democratically elected.
        Dr Mohammad Mossadegh was peaceful.
        Dr Mohammad Mossadegh never attacked the US.
        Dr Mohammad Mossadegh never attacked any country.
        Dr Mohammad Mossadegh was chosen by his people to be the president of Iran.
        Dr Mohammad Mossadegh was overthrown by the US in 1953 in a CIA plot known as Operation Ajax.
        Dr Mohammad Mossadegh was replaced by a dictator, the Shah, chosen by the US.
        Dr Mohammad Mossadegh was replaced by 25 years of brutality against the Iranian people but favored by the US.
        How do you rationalize this piece of history into your quaint little theory?
        .
        
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        Thinker221 year, 2 months ago
        
        > How do you rationalize this piece of history into your quaint little theory?
        Pretty simple. Even if the CIA played some role in the replacement of Dr. Mossadegh by the Shah the US can not be blamed for the inability of the people of Iran to replace the Shah by a leader more to their liking. No matter whom you blame for the quality of the soup you don't like. It's YOUR soup and it's up to YOU to cook a better one. Similarly, it's the people of Iran, Syria, Saudi Arabia, Cuba or North Korea who can and should remove their dictators if they do not like them. After all, every people deserve their leaders.
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        blowback1 year, 2 months ago
        
        > Even if the CIA played some role in the replacement of Dr. Mossadegh by the Shah the US can not be blamed for the inability of the people of Iran to replace the Shah by a leader more to their liking.
        .
        .
        Oh, but they did.
        It was called the IRANIAN REVOLUTION.
        As brutal and dictatorial as the Shah was,
        he was most definitely replaced.
        .
        .
        > No matter whom you blame for the quality of the soup you don't like. It's YOUR soup and it's up to YOU to cook a better one.
        .
        .
        If ever there was proof that talk is cheap, this is it.
        .
        .
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        blowback1 year, 2 months ago
        
        And the CIA not only played some role in the overthrow of Iran's democratically elected leader, they orchestrated it.
        Google Operation Ajax.
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        Thinker221 year, 2 months ago
        
        > > No matter whom you blame for the quality of the soup you don't like. It's YOUR soup and it's up to YOU to cook a better one.
        .
        .
        If ever there was proof that talk is cheap, this is it.
        You mean, after your full agreement with my words you declare that (apparently, YOURS) talk is cheap? If you say so...
        ...and yes, the Iranians now eat the soup they've cooked for themselves by the Iranian Revolution.
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        blowback1 year, 2 months ago
        
        Wow, you're not even good at obfuscation.
        Try not to make it so obvious.
        
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    ramblingwreck1 year, 2 months ago
    
    You seem confused. Bush did absolutely nothing to alter the Palestinian election results. If you're referring to stopping aid to them after the election, would you have the U.S. government provide aid to an organization that they have labled "terrorist" for years? Just as in the U.S., the Palestinian elections had consequences...the Palestinian people "spoke" and now they are experiencing the consequences.
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  Obaku1 year, 2 months ago
  
  Albanians?
  LMAO
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      blowback1 year, 2 months ago
      
      It's a set up. They're getting back for all those movies.
      *
      Wag The Dog - 1997
      AMES
      Albania...
      BREAN
      Yes.
      AMES
      Why?
      BREAN
      What do you know about them?
      AMES
      ...nothing...
      BREAN
      Precisely.
      AMES
      What did Albania ever do to us?
      BREAN
      What did they ever do FOR us...?
      (PAUSE)
      You see, this is why we have to mobilize the B-2 Bomber.
      *
      And, Tune In Tomorrow... (Aunt Julia & The Scriptwriter) - 1990
      "you look like an Albanian peasant who's cow just died"
      "an Albanian is outside doing something unnatural to your dog"
      "the policeman ran to an alley inhabited only by rats, garbage, and Albanians."
      .
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      ramblingwreck1 year, 2 months ago
      
      There must be a point hidden somewhere in that babble.
      Reply
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ThePromisedOne1 year, 2 months ago

I believe if they balance the progress out, slowly but surely things will get better when people are given a real chance with good resources to do so.
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foksipayne1 year, 2 months ago

That was dumb, first comment on the thread and you're already bichen 'bout Clinton. Nush is more effective at what while we're on the subject? Making stupid mistakes and still claiming to be normal?
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Thinker221 year, 2 months ago

It seems that the chances to form a Palestinian government (even more, an EFFECTIVE government) without Hamas are extremely slim. So, I see no end of the embargo in sight.
On the other hand, if the embargo will end without an effective Palestinian government in place it will only result in more violence as the militants will be able to get fresh supplies with ease.
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  UBCONFUSE1 year, 2 months ago
  
  Wrong! When the embargo is lifted, goods will pour in and daily life will be far better with prices falling for the basics. Abbas will get the credit. Now, just isolate Hammas and systematically kill everyone with a gun in Gaza. Hammas loses and Fatah wins, but this will only happen if the IDF backs Fatah.
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    Thinker221 year, 2 months ago
    
    Sorry, brother. The goods will pour in and will be picked up by Hamas for the simple reason that Hamas is now the overwhelming power in Gaza. Guess who will get the credit?
    Further, WHY should IDF back Fatah over Hamas? Most anti-Israelis blame Israel for supporting Hamas years ago as a counter force to Fatah. Now I'm asking the simple question: if is is bad to support one terrorist organization over another WHY it is good to support the other terrorist organization over the first one?
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      el4sail1 year, 2 months ago
      
      WHY it is good to support the other terrorist organization over the first one?
      ***********Divide and conquor is still an effective strategy.
      Unfotnately this little division may lead to a unified Palestine with Hamas as the leaders with alquaeda in the rear.
      It may even unite Iran Syria Hezbollah and alquaeda.
      Do you think Suicide bombers who use nuclear weapons on Israel should be executed 2 times?
      Why wont this ever happen?
      
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        Thinker221 year, 2 months ago
        
        > Do you think Suicide bombers who use nuclear weapons on Israel should be executed 2 times?
        No. They should be executed only once, prior to having any opportunity to use their weapons.
        > Why wont this ever happen?
        It will, possibly, happen if all other ways to stop Iran from making nuclear weapons will fail.
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        el4sail1 year, 2 months ago
        
        Iran is amountainous country,
        If they have 3000 centrifuges where you can see them they have 10,000 a mile under a mountain where you cant.
        Iran has estimated Israel can devastate 40,000 square miles of Iran with its entire nuclear arsenal.
        This will leave 860,000 relatively unaffected.
        Israel on the other hand cant withstand or recover from one 200kt weapon in TelAviv.
        There is a strategic disadvantage to having a postage stamp sized country
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        Justice4All1 year, 2 months ago
        
        "There is a strategic disadvantage to having a postage stamp sized country"
        They should have taken over a larger country. But they wanted the heart of the Middle east. Palestine. The most fertile land in the Middle East.
        They could have moved someplace where no one was living like the empty quarter in Saudi instead of displacing the Palestinians.
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        Edmar141 year, 2 months ago
        
        The most fertile land? Have you seen the west bank? The only green is where the Jewish settlements are. Israel Proper, before the Jews reclaimed the land was barren of almost all trees since the time of the crusaders. the Jezreel valley and Hula valleys were malarial infested swamps. The Jews brought in Eucalyptus trees from Australia, drained the swamps and made the land fertile. They developed a systemic organization to reforest the country. The Negev desert, which was totally baren land is blooming because of Jewish irrigation technology. The point? "But they wanted the heart of the Middle east. Palestine. The most fertile land in the Middle East." It was far from fertile until the Jews reclaimed the land and made it fertile. The land that the arabs hold in the same area is still brown, mostly barren and has been for over a thousand years. If you doubt what I am saying, go there and see for yourself.
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        Thinker221 year, 2 months ago
        
        As a matter of fact these lands WERE fertile. One has to read the Bible and the historic evidence of the time to verify that the land of Judea was covered by forests and rivers. For the last several hundred years the majority of population in Palestine was Arab and these people turned the land into a typical Arab country, a desert.
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        Thinker221 year, 2 months ago
        
        "They" are the Jews. People who lived in Judea (Land of the Jews) for thousands of years. People who established Jewish Kingdom in Judea, not in any other place thousands of years prior to the first Muslim was walking on the surface of this planet.
        ...and yes, the Romans kicked most of the Jews out and changed the name of this province from Judea to Palestine.
        ... and no, the Jews did not displaced the Palestinians. As a matter of fact, Palestinians as an ethnic entity were unknown to the world prior to the late 1960s.
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        el4sail1 year, 2 months ago
        
        Seems like your claim is against he Romans,.
        If israel has a RIGHT to Palestine based on historical grounds.
        Then the Native ameircans have the same RIGHT to the western hemisphere.
        THe native ameircans claims are only 100 years old unlike the Ashkenazi who have been gone so long they look like aryians.
        Israel is there only becaus eof its military strength.
        Not because of its riteous nature.
        When the Palesitnians or the native americans get sufficient Might they will also be RIGHT.
        WMD terror offers them state level Might and I think its comming soon.
        Certainly the US government is not holding WMD terror respons drills and training because they think it is impossible.
        Most think its inevitable.
        Move Israel to Nevada and let them make it Bloom also.
        
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        Thinker221 year, 2 months ago
        
        Israel has a RIGHT to exist due to the fact that it exist. No more and no less.
        If, however, you believe that the Arabs somehow have MORE right to Palestine than the Jews have SHOW ME THE LEGAL DEED PLEASE.
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        Thinker221 year, 2 months ago
        
        > Even inside of Israel there are 250,000 palestinian christian and moslem citizens of the country that are "internal refugees" that are forbidden to return to the land and property they own - this has been turned over to jews. Even the "intel factory" that the zionists like to crow about is built on land owned by palestinians.
        I'm not sure what you're talking about. Are you sure that there are 250,000 Israeli citizens (Christians and Muslims "forbidden to return to the land and property they own") who are meaning that these Israeli citizens have somehow restricted movement rights? What about the remaining 1 Million Israeli Arabs? Are these people NOT "forbidden to return to the land and property they own"?
        Can you support this (weird, to say the least) claim by some factual material?
        
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        Justice4All1 year, 2 months ago
        
        Then who were the people who lived in the place called Palestine on all the old maps? Or have you erased that from all your history books.
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        Thinker221 year, 2 months ago
        
        > Then who were the people who lived in the place called Palestine on all the old maps? Or have you erased that from all your history books.
        No, brother, I did not erase anything. Throughout centuries there were Jews, Arabs, Armenians, Turks, Kircassians, Druses... but no 'Palestinians' in the place called Palestine.
        If you disagree please feel free to show me ONE (!) history book about Palestinians and their culture that was published prior to 1960 please.
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        Thinker221 year, 2 months ago
        
        > Show us one history book that speaks of a jewish country in palestine in the last 2500 years.
        As a matter of fact, this book is the most popular (by far) book in human history It describes the life of a Jewish man named Jesus. As you're, hopefully, aware, today is the year 2007 that is counted from the year a Jewish boy known as Jesus Christ was born to Jewish parents in a Jewish town Bethlehem in the land of Judea which means "Land of the Jews".
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        blowback1 year, 2 months ago
        
        You forgot one important historical fact.
        Judea was a province of the Roman Empire. "Judea" is the Greek/Roman name for Judah.
        Prior to which it was a province of the Medo-Persian Empire, the Babylonian Empire and the Assyrian Empire.
        Which is around 2500 years all up.
        Even your historical source would verify that.
        Quasi-historical, religious claims with unproveable divine patronage to land are more the exception to the rule.
        The historically proven rule has always been, you take it, you keep it, it's yours.
        Until you lose it.
        Just look at Iraq.
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        Thinker221 year, 2 months ago
        
        > Judea was a province of the Roman Empire. "Judea" is the Greek/Roman name for Judah.
        > Prior to which it was a province of the Medo-Persian Empire, the Babylonian Empire and the Assyrian Empire.
        Well, brother, somehow you forgot to continue this line. You see, Judea was a province of the Roman Empire and was renamed Palestine. It was part of the Bizantian Empire, then it was ruled by Crusaders. Crusaders were forced out by Salah as-Din, a Kurd. Palestine became part of the Ottoman Empire until WWI when the Ottoman Turks were replaced by the British. Palestine was NEVER ruled by Palestinians and only for a short period it was ruled by the Arabs.
        > Quasi-historical, religious claims with unproveable divine patronage to land are more the exception to the rule.
        In 1948 the UN offered to create two states in Palestine, a Jewish state and an Arab state. The Jews agreed to it and the Arabs refused. 60 years later they enjoy the fruits of their decision.
        
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        blowback1 year, 2 months ago
        
        I see addressing the point is just not your thing.
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        Thinker221 year, 2 months ago
        
        > I see addressing the point is just not your thing.
        It seems that it's rather comprehending the point is not YOUR thing.
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        blowback1 year, 2 months ago
        
        As if you would know. lol
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        Thinker221 year, 2 months ago
        
        The fact that you were unable to comprehend a pretty straightforward point in my earlier message made your level of comprehension pretty obvious... but you're unable to comprehend THIS point either, are you?
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      UBCONFUSE1 year, 2 months ago
      
      Hamas has taken over Gaza, Fatah is in the West Bank with a far larger population. Gaza is surrounded by fences and IDF surveillance. The border with Egypt is basically in lock down because Egypt has no use for more radicals with guns and bombs. This effectively traps Hamas in Gaza. Isolate and eliminate Hamas on a street by street basis. Arrest every male in Gaza, then search every building. If peace is to return to Palestine, it will be through Fatah and the rule of law. Like I said Abbas must show he is not another Arafat. If Abbas shows leadership and improves conditions, the people will follow him. Without Arafat, Fatah has a chance to shed its terrorist past. In the Arab world, leadership is nothing without results people can see, smell and taste. If Abbas blows this chance and does not crush Hamas, the bullets will escalate into civil war.
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        Thinker221 year, 2 months ago
        
        Who, in your opinion is willing and able to eliminate Hamas in Gaza, as you suggest?
        ...and no, Fatah is no much different from Hamas. Read their Charter.
        ... and yes, Abbas is no Arafat. Arafat was a leader. Abbas is a puppet.
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NelsonR1 year, 2 months ago

Not a seer, but I think I am becoming one. The surge and our presence in Iraq was a mistake and this to will be a sad error. Mark my words, another abomination in the Bush foreign policy agenda.
The U.S. will support Abbas with money and arms while the players on both sides of the palestinian camps despise America. When 9/11 occurred the Palestinians were elated, and partied. Whoever wins, Hamas or Fatah with the money and arms supplied by the U.S., they will then be used against Israel and the U.S. to support terrorist organizations.
Bush, Cheney and Condi Rice are truely not in tune with historical events and their failed policies continue.
Allow Hamas and Fatah like Iraq, to figure things out for themselves. Stop our meddling since in the end they will despise us more. Gosh, has common sense left Washington D.C. Both Republicans and Democrats with low poll numbers are a blight on the future of America. Bush should resign, 71 percent against.
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  UBCONFUSE1 year, 2 months ago
  
  NR
  I think you are about 3 years in the past with your conclusion. This break with Hammas may be the start of a new day. I think the Palestinians have had all of the blood shed they can stand. In the last election, Abbas did not have a clear win and Hammas used fear to stop some voting. Hammas promised change but delivered nothing but more Israeli occupation and missile strikes. Daily life is bad enough, but intolerable with the factions shooting at each other.
  The trick for Abbas is to show leadership, get some results to improve daily life. If he fails, he just looks like another clone of Arafat. I hope he makes it!!
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    NelsonR1 year, 2 months ago
    
    UBCONFUSE - Time will tell. I stand by my conclusion that it will be another American fiasco involvement. Why must we put our noses continually into other nations business's and attempt to dictate. If you are for it then you condone Americas demise and bankruptcy including American lives.
    What have we accomplished in Iraq other than death, misery, destruction and mass migration to refugee status for millions of Iraqis. George Bush is an idiot.
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    Thinker221 year, 2 months ago
    
    > The trick for Abbas is to show leadership, get some results to improve daily life. If he fails, he just looks like another clone of Arafat. I hope he makes it!!
    Please don't forget that Abbas was Arafat's second in command for many long years. There are two major differences between the two: while Arafat looked like a terrorist and was an excellent leader Abbas looks like a western diplomat and is a non-leader.
    As long as the majority of the Palestinians support the idea of elimination of Israel and as long as the charters of both Hamas and Fatah call for elimination of Israel and no peace with Israel on any conditions there will be no negotiations, no peace and no end to the Palestinian misery.
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      Thinker221 year, 2 months ago
      
      Please consider that 95% of the Palestinians never lived in Israel and never were Israeli citizens. One can not 'return' to a place he or she never was.
      Palestinians are allowed to 'return' to any place or state willing to accept them. Israel is not one of these places.
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        Thinker221 year, 2 months ago
        
        Any person who had and lost property in Israel has the right and is encouraged to bring his/her case to Israeli court and ask for compensation. Of course they'll have to submit some evidence to the court that the said property actually belongs to them.
        Further, even according to the Palestinian sources no more than 750,000 people left the lands that later became Israel back in 1948. This is a far cry from your 4.5 million.
        Still further, even if someone owns property in another state this does not give him an automatic right to settle in this state. You may consult US Immigration Law for some comparison if you wish. According to the US Laws a person who was not born in the US and both his/her parents are not US citizens does not have an automatic right to settle in the US even if his/her parents lived in the US for their entire lives.
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        el-jefe1 year, 2 months ago
        
        Could you just explain to me how someone could live in the US for their entire life without being a citizen?
        "Entire life" implies every moment since birth.
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        Thinker221 year, 2 months ago
        
        Such persons are called "permanent residents" if they live in the US legally and do not apply for US citizenship. In addition, millions of people who live in the US illegally are also not citizens. Further, if someone who was brought into US illegally a day after his/her birth and lived in the US for the rest of his/her life without becoming a citizen would be a perfect example of a person living in the US for his/her entire life (excluding one day, of course) without becoming a citizen.
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        el-jefe1 year, 2 months ago
        
        Ok, and why would someone who has lived here every day except 1 since birth marry someone else who has done so, then travel to another country to give birth, then return?
        I'm sure out of the millions of permanent residents here there may be a handful that fits this decription, but it's such a strained and contrived example that it serves little purpose.
        I think you'd be on more solid ground if you just said that it is possible to buy property in the US (for example, by buying up a controlling interest in a US company that owns property here) without being eligible to enter, much less reside, in the US.
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        Thinker221 year, 2 months ago
        
        I've told you what the US Immigration Laws said.
        You've asked for an example and I've given you one. Please consider that the US laws are applicable even to a handful out of a million.
        Your example supports my statements, however, it does not explain why children and grandchildren of former Palestinian refugees are NOT ELIGIBLE to "return" to Israel.
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        el-jefe1 year, 2 months ago
        
        Well, I suppose we would call that "ethnic cleansing". But that was not a phrase in general use in 1948, or in 1967, or in 1973.
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        Thinker221 year, 2 months ago
        
        > I suppose we would call that "ethnic cleansing". But that was not a phrase in general use in 1948, or in 1967, or in 1973.
        This is correct. "Ethnic cleansing" of this kind is pretty popular in every state on the planet. For example, hundreds of Millions of Chinese who never lived in the US and never were American citizens do not have an automatic right to settle in the US. Similarly, hundreds of Millions people who live in extreme poverty in Central Africa also do not have such right. These Chinese and Africans will not have an automatic right to settle in Switzerland, Japan, France or Germany either even if they'll plant a couple of explosive device in shopping malls and high-speed trains there.
        Is not it amazing?
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        el-jefe1 year, 2 months ago
        
        Well, once again, I'm not sure you have made a valid analogy here. The ancestors of those Chinese and Africans were never forcibly displaced form the US, Switzerland, Japan, France, or Germany.
        On the other hand, roughly 5% of Palestinians were born in what is now Israel and were forcibly removed from their homes. The other 95% of the Palestinians are their children and grandchildren (and, great-grandchildren).
        So, perhaps a better analogy would be, would an Afghani who fled Afghanistan during the Soviet occupation have a right to return to Afghanistan? And would that Afghani's child who was born in say, Pakistan, have a right to settle in the land of his ancestors? Or should he be forced to live out his life in Pakistan as a Pakistani, even though the Soviets are long gone from Afghanistan?
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        Thinker221 year, 2 months ago
        
        > On the other hand, roughly 5% of Palestinians were born in what is now Israel and were forcibly removed from their homes.
        I'm sorry to blow this popular legend but a legend never less. You see, people (even Arabs) tend to run away from battlefields. In May, 1948 five Arab countries attacked Israel with a goal to destroy it once and far all. Overpowered and overgunned, the Israelis did not have those tens of thousands special forces needed to "forcibly remove 750,000 Arabs from their homes". They were fighting for their lives. Literally. Everyone able to hold a rifle was fighting.
        Palestinian Arabs, their children, grandchildren, friends and relatives have a right to "return" to any place or state willing to accept them. Nevertheless, Israel is willing to consider individual cases of people willing to live in Israel and become loyal citizens of the Zionist State. These people can apply to the Israeli Ministry of Immigration and file the relevant papers there.
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        Thinker221 year, 2 months ago
        
        > So, perhaps a better analogy would be, would an Afghani who fled Afghanistan during the Soviet occupation have a right to return to Afghanistan?
        You want an analogy? Well, here is a couple:
        Do you believe that children and grandchildren of Germans who fled Koenigsberg (part of Prussia) back in 1944 have an automatic right to settle in Kaliningrad (part of Russia) and become Russian citizens? How about people who fled Danzig at about the same time? Are you sure that their relatives have an automatic right to settle in Poland?
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      NelsonR1 year, 2 months ago
      
      geo - And also the arabs and palestinians will be in eternal war and misery. No winnner, only dolts.
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      Daylight1 year, 2 months ago
      
      Thinker22
      > The trick for Abbas is to show leadership, get some results to improve daily life. If he fails, he just looks like another clone of Arafat.
      Yeah, this is the reason why he is a clown, because of these Jewish fatwas are responsible for instigating religious Jews against Arabs. Last year, Rabbi Mordechai Eliyahu, former Sephardic chief rabbi and an influential authority among conservative Jews, issued a fatwa asking the Israeli Army not to flinch from killing Palestinian civilians in the context of the ongoing military campaign against armed groups resisting the occupation. He mentioned in his fatwa, which received special attention from religious media outlets and hundreds of pamphlets distributed inside synagogues in Israel. that all Palestinians must be murdered, even the ones who are not participating in the war against terrorism. This wasn't enough for the revered rabbi, who said that this was not only a fatwa, but a religious duty from God that Jews must follow.
      
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        Daylight1 year, 2 months ago
        
        ccontinued
        After that, one of the most important Jewish rabbis issued a fatwa that allowed his students in one of the Jewish settlements in the northern West Bank to steal the agricultural produce grown by Palestinians. It said that everything in the West Bank belongs to the Jews, giving them the right to confiscate such properties. This fatwa was implemented and his students confiscated the agricultural yield of the Palestinians.
        So the best way to avoid further conflict is to dismantle Israel and relocate them to Alaska where they will live peacefully as a chosen people of God.
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        Thinker221 year, 2 months ago
        
        > ...this is the reason why he is a clown, because of these Jewish fatwas are responsible...
        Try to find something more convincing next time. There are no Jewish fatwas. Fatwas are used EXCLUSIVELY by Islamic preachers.
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zembel1 year, 2 months ago

Proof that the western powers support Democracy only when people they LIKE get elected.

Reply
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  tanglang1 year, 2 months ago
  
  Or proof that we support governments that do not support terrorism. I'm guessing by your statement that you think hammas has a right to rule Gaza?
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    Thinker221 year, 2 months ago
    
    We don't care WHO rules Gaza as long as they do not try to kill others. If they do we'll fight back no matter how their leaders were elected.
    Is it clear enough?
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      Daylight1 year, 2 months ago
      
      Thinker22
      We don't care WHO rules Gaza as long as they do not try to kill others. If they do we'll fight back no matter how their leaders were elected.
      You are in no position t defend Israel, Israel itself is the Hitler's product. On the other hand, a group of prominent Jewish rabbis addressed the Israeli defense minister, Shaul Mofaz, saying that killing enemy civilians was "normal" during wartime and that the Israeli Army should never hesitate to kill non-Jewish civilians in order to save Jewish lives. "There is no war in the world in which it is possible to delineate neatly between the population and the enemy's army, neither in the US war in Iraq, the Russian war in Chechnya, nor in Israel's war with its enemies," the rabbis said
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        Thinker221 year, 2 months ago
        
        It's a sad fact that civilians are being killed in ANY war especially if these civilians are being used as human shields.
        Another fact is that the number of Palestinian Arabs killed during an average day of the terrorist war known as the Intifadah was 2 (two). These 2 (two) Palestinian Arabs killed include walking bombs, people killed by prematurely exploded bombs, Palestinians killed by other Palestinians and civilians who were unlucky enough to find themselves in the middle of a fight.
        Try to find another major war during the last 100 hears when 2 (two) people per day were killed by one of the most powerful militaries in the world and we'll talk again.
        Alternatively, try to find something more convincing than the Arabian tales you're postinfg here.
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  HannibalBarca1 year, 2 months ago
  
  tanglang: Or proof that we support governments that do not support terrorism...How do you explain S.Arabia, the guys who flew the planes or Iraq when they fought Iran, or Iran when your puppet Shah was in power, or letting Yasser Arafat travel unmolested to the UN building so he could get his Nobel Peace Prize. You seem to pick and chose who to fight and when and also have no problem changing sides.
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  Thinker221 year, 2 months ago
  
  Of course. Hitler was democratically elected. This does not mean, however, that the Western powers had to support his regime.
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    Thinker221 year, 2 months ago
    
    Try to find something better than these Arab tales next time please.
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      Thinker221 year, 2 months ago
      
      These so-called 'documents' are well-known FAKES (just like the Protocols of the Elders of Zion) and there are liars and anti-Semites even among the Jews. These 'documents' are being copied from one anti-Semitic source into another but, not surprisingly, the ORIGINALS do not exist.
      On the other hand, the Arab collaboration with the Nazis is well known and well documented, from the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem to future Egyptian Presidents Nasser and Sadat who openly worked with the Nazis to the Syrian President Assad who allowed Nazi mass murderers to hide in Syria.
      Further, since 1939 the Nazis hunted, arrested and murdered every Jew in sight. This would unquestionably happen with the "Zionist factions", too if they tried to somehow "collaborate" with the Nazis. No, the Nazis had nothing against Arabs.
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    Daylight1 year, 2 months ago
    
    Thinker22
    Of course. Hitler was democratically elected. This does not mean, however, that the Western powers had to support his regime.
    So is George Bush who is worse than Hitler.
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      el-jefe1 year, 2 months ago
      
      "So is George Bush who is worse than Hitler."
      Can you point me to any of Bush's extermination camps? I'd really like to visit one, take a few pictures, watch some of the "undesirables" go to their well-earned reward.
      Just reply with the location here. I'm sure it's visible on Google Earth, so we can all see it.
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        Thinker221 year, 2 months ago
        
        Bush is, actually, worse than Hitler... to the Muslims. Especially, to violent fanatic racist murderers among them.
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        Justice4All1 year, 2 months ago
        
        Bush is the worst president America has ever had. His regime has destroyed much of what America has stood for for the previous 225 years.
        But to suggest he is worse than Hitler is going a little too far. As bad as things like Gitmo and Abu Garab are, they hardly compare to a concentration camp.
        Hopefully that wont change in the next year and a half.
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  badnootka1 year, 2 months ago
  
  And you would support those governments that are openly hostile you and advocate the destruction of your way of life?
  Reply

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