News – "Slow as a turtle" was how one Iraqi lawmaker on Tuesday described Iraq's faltering progress in meeting political benchmarks set by Washington to encourage national reconciliation and end sectarian violence.
Iraq's parliament just passed a resolution that could end the U.S. occupation by the end of the year:
http://www.alternet.org/story/53230/
This is just after a majority of their lawmakers signed a resolution that demands that all foreign troops withdraw:
http://www.alternet.org/story/51624/
They're asking the U.S. to leave.
This comes just a couple weeks after Bush said:
"We are there at the invitation of the Iraqi government. This is a sovereign nation. Twelve million people went to the polls to approve a constitution. It's their government's choice. If they were to say, leave, we would leave."
http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2007/05...
Despite them having asked several times in the past:
http://www.aolelectionsblog.com/2007/05/24/if-i...
And now there are rumblings of a permanent U.S. presence, which would be against the wishes of Iraqi government (a.k.a. a permanent occupation):
Good articles, Neophile. Thanks for the links.
From the CSM article:
"That reasoning assumes that a long-term US presence will aid in Iraq's stability and development â;; something not everyone agrees can be assumed.
"We are going to have to be in Iraq for a number of years still, but to talk in terms of a number of decades is not helpful," says Brookings' O'Hanlon. "Despite our best efforts, we have been part of the reason for the turmoil in Iraq. We should not presuppose that our long-term presence will be beneficial." "
I think that just about sums it up right there.
Another article on here stated that Hillary Clinton said some troops would be in Iraq till the end of her second term as president, 10 yrs. Like that is going to happen, her second term or a 1st for that matter. The troops may be a different story tho. I hope they come home when the time is right, whenever that is.
"I hope they come home when the time is right, whenever that is."
Like six months ago perhaps??
It must be extremely galling for those whose nearest and dearest are serving in Iraq to read stories like these and its hardly surprising that the mainstream media are unwilling to air them.
But the genie's out of the box in the form of alternative web-based news sources..
"This is a sovereign nation. ... It's their government's choice. If they were to say, leave, we would leave."
I guess we'll find out soon how sovereign Iraq is.
Saturday, May 12, 2007 AP
WASHINGTON â;; Worried Congress' support for Iraq is deteriorating rapidly, Baghdad dispatched senior officials to Capitol Hill this week to warn members one-on-one that pulling out U.S. troops would have disastrous consequences.
How long will it take for him to say, "We're staying because they don't know what they're asking or doing."?
They don't want to leave with their twisted perception that if they leave now it will be 'egg on their face'. Remember, they value their own appearance over the the lives of thousands of US troops.
But everyone always says"they want us there"
Guess those ppl were wrong after all.
Maybe they admire us for putting up with the idiots of our gov't. We shouldn't HAVE to put up with them, this IS a free country.Isn't it?
Yuk it up, foksipain, but your comments continue to be ill-informed, immature and, frankly, irrelevant.
saintetienne,
Suppose a foreign nation occupied the US and someone from that country asked you what you thought about the occupation. Would you tell that person that you hated their guts and risk beings shipped off to Abu Graib or Guanatnamo?
By the way, do you speak their language, and did you walk freely in their midst to get a good sampling of their opinions? Can you assume that they trusted you?
If you are as rude in real life as you are to people in cyberspace then they probably just told you any old bs to make you shut up and go away.
But since you're here perhaps you'd be willing to share with us
a] in what capacity you were in Iraq
b] whether you speak fluent Arabic or dealt with people through an interpreter
c] What part of
"Like anyone else, they just want to have a chance to raise their families in peace, and aspire to some of the same things that we have come to take for granted in this country"
the US presence is currently successfully fulfilling and what would be incompatible with a US commitment to leave as soon as possible.
For starters..
If your answers to those questions are significantly interesting and rendered with a modicum of courtesy then I dare say myself and plenty of others would like to hear from you in more detail.
Neophile
More than half of the members of Iraq's parliament rejected for the first time on Tuesday the continuing occupation of their country. The U.S. media ignored the story
;On Tuesday, without note in the U.S. media, ; That would be CNN, CBS, ABC, FOX, MSNBC, NBC, NYT, WaPo but why not on international news sources like
BBC, AP, UPI, REUTERS ?
In the Internet age no legitimate news story could be blocked by ;US media;
This story has the markings of pure propaganda. Do the Netscape anchors give the slightest effort to verify a story as true or even plausible? Before posting it?
I noticed that this sight is hawking T-shirts with the names of 3,155 fallen U.S. troops, without PERMISSION from the families. Pure exploitation for profit nothing more.
Sorry but this sight and sources are highly suspect . It garners ;O; (Zero) respect, as does anyone who would reference it.
So sad,
So if the new Iraqi government is wanting us to leave. Then why is bush keeping us over there? Hmmmm Could it be OIL? Just a thought.
Oh dandt, please..... don't be so sanctimonious.
Do YOU use oil, and oil-based products? Of course you do. And even if you don't (highly doubtful), you certainly rely on businesses and services that do.
In order to satiate YOUR appetite for oil and oil-based products, the United States needs to protect its interests in the Middle East. And a large part of that protection means stabilizing and maintaining a presence in Iraq, since their volatile and incompetent leadership over the last 30 years can't seem to do it on their own.
If we pull our troops and our interests out now, you can wave goodbye to $3.31 per gallon of gas, and say hello to $10.67 per gallon of gas. And that coffee slurpee in the plastic cup you like to suck out of will triple in price, too.
Don't like it? Use the subway or take a bus to work.
Can't do it? Don't want to do it? Then keep your mouth shut and be grateful you even have a choice.
I absolutely agree with you saintetienne.
It amazes me how so many complain about the United States oil interests in the world and do not realize that it is a important commodity that we must protect.
The United Stated has asked nothing from the common citizen to sacrifice in this war and you still have a society bent on complaining.
I would be willing to bet that if those gas prices did reach 10.67 per gallon those same people complaining now would be screaming for our government to do something about it. In fact, I know they would.
We have become a society that truly understands no forms of personal sacrifice and are completely obsessed with oneself.
If gas prices do skyrocket, my only hope is that it would teach some of these blind people out there a valuable lesson. You don't appreciate something until it is gone.
Dependence on foreign resources is a problem that leaves many industrialized countries with a weakness. Even Bush called U.S. dependence on foreign oil an "addiction".
If that problem is ignored, then you can bet the U.S. will continue to fight aggressively for control of resource-rich parts of the world.
Well thank you Neophile, for enlightening us all.
Now that you've identified the problem and griped about it like any garden-variety Liberal, what are YOU doing, neophile? Have you stopped drinking water from plastic bottles? Do you rideshare, take the bus or the subway?
And before you gripe some more, and go off about how evil our government is, just know that as a middle-class American, you are in the upper 15% of the world population in terms of prosperity, human rights, comfort, technology, medical care and life expectancy.
Now, given that perspective, let 'er rip. What other nuggets of knowledge would you like to share with us, and what complaints would you like to expound on today?
I'll throw in a complaint, if you don't object: Even the current President, who is killing off American soldiers for the sake of foreign oil (accepting that argument for the moment) keeps saying we need to get OFF the foreign oil. I think pretty much everyone agrees with this. My complaint is: Why isn't the damn government helping us to DO it? Why aren't we building nuclear power plants? Why aren't we funding BATTERY research? Why aren't we doing better with developing fuel cells? We seem to be able to spend BILLIONS of dollars to protect access to the foreign oil we all agree we should be getting OFF of, why not put those billions into nuclear power plants and other research and/or infrastructure so we CAN get off the foreign oil?
It all starts with you, JoeBlowe. If YOU stop using oil, and millions of other Americans who feel the same way you do make an effort to get out of their cars, stop using plastics, etc., oil companies would look to new technologies OVERNIGHT.
In a market-based economy (which we're LUCKY to have, I might add), the product that sells the most is king. The bad news is sometimes that product is no good for us, like oil. The good news is, as consumers, we wield purchasing power, and can enact changes simply by not buying a product. The bad news again is that most consumers are unwilling to make any personal sacrifice (though they do like to whine, complain and blame everyone else).
It is NOT the government's job to force anyone or any business to "do" something or not. They are there to uphold laws in a market economy, nothing more. Businesses, the market and the consumer decide what will be created, bought and consumed.
I urge YOU to do something about it.
It is also not the government's job to use the military to secure access to resources for the market-based economy.
As you said: they are there to uphold laws in a market economy, nothing more.
If President Bush would state, clearly and forthrightly, that our purpose is to safeguard the oil supply, and take effective and visible action calculated to do that, I would support him. But no, he gives us twaddle about bringing "freedom and democracy" to the Iraqi people and proclaims Islam to be a "peaceful" religion. Since you obviously know what our objective ought to be (and I am serious), it is too bad that it cannot be communicated to President Bush, and even worse that he does not have the courage to proclaim it.
I hear a MUCH louder complaining whine, accompanied by cranky bitchiness, in virtually every word that you utter than I do in those whom you seem to believe you have a God-given right to upbraid and mock.
Your oil dependency/role of government argument is specious to say the least.
The assertion that the government is acting on the desires of the people and their need for oil is a non-starter if it doesn't also reference the capitalist imperative to maximise profits. Ergo - minimal research on alternative fuel sources, very little incentive to increase mpg and continuing encouragement of addiction to oil and gas-guzzling vehicles.
saintetienne,
I just love your twisted logic. You write: "When a commodity such as oil, which DRIVES every other business on the planet, falls into the hands of hostile forces who refuse to cooperate..." Falls into the hands of hostile forces? How did Iraqi oil fall into the hands of the Iraqis? By living there?
I bet you would claim that any natural resource found within the US belongs to the US and no other country has any claim on it, no matter how badly they need it. Or do they have the right to take it if they have squandered their own resources and need it badly enough?
saintetienne,
Although you asked Neophile, I figure this is an open forum, so I'll answer your questions, even though you don't answer mines.
No, I haven't stopped drinking water from plastic bottles because I've never started it. Bottled water is one of the most outrageous things in the civilized world. Instead of making sure that the water system provides clean water for everybody, the rich can buy their clean water and pollute the environment, while the poor can drink whatever comes out of the pipes.
Yes, I do take public transportation to most places, and within a 3 mile radius I usually walk.
You say: "just know that as a middle-class American, you are in the upper 15% of the world population in terms of prosperity, human rights, comfort, technology, medical care and life expectancy."
You are right. All the more reason for not taking away whatever those who are not in the top 15% have.
Since the fall of 2006 the price at the gas pump has risen nearly $.75 per gallon. The price of crude oil has stayed just under $1.50 per gallon. I fail to see how we have secured and protected the United States oil interests.
And before you attack me for using oil. I do use it but I also try to minimize its use. I generally fill up about once a month.
Pricing information:
RedSoxGirl: "It amazes me how so many complain about the United States oil interests in the world and do not realize that it is a important commodity that we must protect."
"Protect" is the wrong word here. The correct one is "take."
.
"We have become a society that truly understands no forms of personal sacrifice and are completely obsessed with oneself."
Right on!
We have been there 4 yrs.I would think if all we wanted was Iraqs oil, we would have it by now.Wouldn't be wasting time building schools and whatever else they are doing, we would be lining up tanker after tanker and bringing the spoils of war home to the docks.I will also say, that IMHO we took out saddam for a couple of reasons, and one being that he wanted to change the currency in which oil is traded to euros I believe, and for some reason that I don't understand, that is one reason the USA has had quite cheap gas compared to that of Europe for a very long time, and I do realize a majority of europe taxes the hell outta fuel and most everything else...but that isn't the entirety of the cost variation of fuel between them and us.....anyone know why traded in dollars gave us a lower price for so long? I am curious. thnx
"anyone know why traded in dollars gave us a lower price for so long? I am curious."
It kept the value of the dollar up.
Prior to Iraq and Venezuela switching to the EURO, every major oil-producing nation used the US dollar as its medium of exchange. Consequently, you had to have US dollars to buy crude, so the demand for US dollars was high. If more oil producing nations switch to the Euro, demand for the euro will escalate while demand for the dollar drops, resulting in the value of the dollar against the euro and other currencies degrading.
saint
In order to satiate YOUR appetite for oil and oil-based products, the United States needs to protect its interests in the Middle East. And a large part of that protection means stabilizing and maintaining a presence in Iraq, since their volatile and incompetent leadership over the last 30 years can't seem to do it on their own.
The oil in Iraq belongs to them not the us. Why can`t you get that through your f`n skull.
If Iraq invites us to leave, then we will absolutely be in violation of our own Constitution. Since we WON the war against Iraq, we don't really have any Congressional authority to be there now, but it can at least be argued that we are there assisting the new government at their request. If that goes away, we had better go away too.
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Why should they hurry ?? Bush will send more $$$ and more $$$ to buy them....and they'll take long vacations (just like Bush) rather than make progress in meeting the benchmarks.........Maliki and the current govt are puppets....they will never be perceived as anything else....incompetent....Bring our troops home now !!