This Story is Archived
For ACLU, A Victory In Standoff With U.S. »
Posted by: Beau7890 1 year, 8 months agoFederal prosecutors yesterday dropped their demand that the American Civil Liberties Union turn over all copies of a "secret" document the organization had obtained, after the government was roundly criticized for using a grand jury subpoena in an attempt to seize the material.
Read Full Story at washingtonpost.com »
This Story is Archived and Commenting is Closed
Comments: 108
-
Beau7890
Dec. 19, 2006, 8:17 a.m.Here's a story for the civil libertarians and ACLU-bashers alike.
Seems to me the Justice Dept. was afraid they had no legal ground to stand on, setting precedent for quashing legal intimidation of those who would question this administration's unprecedented use of secrecy to keep the public uninformed.
From the article:
"... the Justice Department said, in effect, that the ACLU had instigated the fight and had told the government that filing the subpoena would be the first step toward the ACLU turning over the document."
-
aquarius448
Dec. 19, 2006, 10:55 a.m.When I read and see both Federal Prosecutors and American Civil Liberties Union mentioned in the same sentence...I shudder. How far will this paranoia from the Federal government go.
-
geographer47
Dec. 19, 2006, 2:14 p.m.The ACLU refused to voluntary give up everything that the DOJ asked for. This is an issue that's worth making a Federal case out of.
-
DeltaX
Dec. 20, 2006, 12:13 a.m.Gummit lawyers let the ACLU tell them how to do their jobs? What a bunch of wusses.
-
-
Bkumm
Dec. 19, 2006, 8:37 a.m.This is very interesting. I find it odd that the ACLU would 'request' that the govt. issue a subpeona. The whole thing seems like yet another attempt by our govt. to suppress information that is not secret or used for war fighting but rather is embarrassing to them.
-
Beau7890
Dec. 19, 2006, 9:22 a.m.My theory the ACLU was looking for a direct ruling from the Supreme Court (though it probably would have taken longer than the administration has left) about government suppression of information that might be embarrassing, under the guise of national security.
The Supreme Court still appears to have *some* measure of integrity.
-
ETproductions
Dec. 19, 2006, 9 p.m.The article said that the ACLU attorney told the judge that the DOJ's explanation of the subpoena being a ACLU request was not only untrue but absurd (or words to that affect).
Democracy and freedom don't thrive behind a wall of secrecy. Transparency is the hallmark of healthy democracy. Only dictatorships and corrupt governments need to do everything behind closed doors.
And before some neocon[man] erects another straw man of national security being at stake here and the terrorist are going to kill us all because of wimps like ET, please take time to read the whole article. Realize that what is at issue here is a document that is, at worst, mildly embarrassing to the government and that in NO earthly way threatens to release state secrets.
I care just as much as anyone else in America about avoiding another terrorist attack on our soil. I just think we need someone leading that charge who has a working brain.
-
-
deathray
Dec. 19, 2006, 8:39 a.m.I understand that the document was "embarrassing" to the Administration, but had no issues relating to "secret" or "national security" implications, so suppression of the document was hiighly unlikely...
It aso appears that the document was not obtained illegally, so I guess the Department of Justice had no way to suppress the document. That appears to be less heavyhanded than many attempts to squelch the free flow of information so necessary to keep a democracy healthy.
-
-
-
ekklesiawarrior
Dec. 19, 2006, 12:06 p.m.It rains on the just and unnjust, the rich and poor.
When it comes to this Bush administration the Left Right and Centre are not happy. After all this administration is in it knee deep with most every group.
-
-
-
Amazing1
Dec. 19, 2006, 8:58 a.m.If the document really only pertains to a prohibition on taking photos of prisoners, why should that be secret?
Why ask for any and all copies if your purpose is only to investigate a leak. If the leak is the center of the investigation, wouldn't you be looking for the original copy in an effort to determine its origin?
There's something rotten about this whole thing.
Just more of our secretive Great Decider and his henchmen at work.
-
Beau7890
Dec. 19, 2006, 9:27 a.m.I've found it interesting that this administration actively investigates leaks they don't like, but buries investigations they initiate (in name only) of leaks that favor them (e.g. the Valerie Plame case).
And--a bit of a digression into old news--I've also wondered why any self-respecting journalist (hello Judith Miller) wouldn't wonder about the motive behind being given leaked information that benefits the administration. Why wouldn't they offer up this info on the record?
-
-
FrankieT
Dec. 19, 2006, 9:24 a.m.There is not much to add here except another 'what can one expect from this administration that has set a record for acting in 'secret', keeping things secret, etc.
What kind of a country have they made us?
-
Bkumm
Dec. 19, 2006, 10 a.m.I'd post the Heinlein quote again, but you all know it. When the govt. is trying to keep things secret that don't need to be kept secret we're in trouble as a country. If it is embarrassing then they shouldn't be doing it.
-
Spadecaller
Dec. 19, 2006, 10:40 a.m.While I enjoy blogging (most often) I sometimes realize how important open exchange of information among community-minded people actually is: it could be ourlast saving grace in a country that is under attack by the extemely repressive regime of George Bush, the Great Decider, Cheney, and the rest of his clan.
-
-
Donnaich
Dec. 19, 2006, 10:45 a.m.Thanks for the update, Beau! Good to see at least one of the suppression attempts got slowed down! Not yet over, I'm sure, but its encouraging!
-
-
-
mossback
Dec. 19, 2006, 12:55 p.m.The ACLU IS the enemy! All you have to do is read the title -- For ACLU, a victory in standoff with US -- as if they are another country or force! I read this article with sorrow. The ACLU lawyers and members are evil and against everything that is good in our society. Until we are willing to remove them completely (by force if necessary) from our country and society, no one (except THEM of course, the ACLU lawyers) can be free. They always work on behalf of every enemy the USA has and laugh about it. They attack the military, the government, churches, and schools and will do anything for a Mohammenden terrorist. The ACLU is the new NAZI party of the 21st century and every bit as hateful and disgusting as the last NAZIs. They operate outside the law and laugh at those of us who live within it. This is a bitter defeat for freedom and justice in the USA.
-
Amazing1
Dec. 19, 2006, 12:56 p.m.How sad. You need to do some more reading. There are many cases that they take. Some that I disagree with. Some which I heartily endorse. Did you see the one about the library blocking public access to gun sites?
In this case, they have done the right thing as well.
-
Bkumm
Dec. 19, 2006, 1:57 p.m.When the State's rights become more important than the rights of the individual citizen none of us are free. The ACLU does not act out of some sense of anger or injustice towards the United States, but rather they are trying to keep the State honest.
Does it strike you as odd that the very people you attack in your post, the ACLU, would fight for your right to attack them? If the military or the government or the churches or the schools do something that infringes upon our rights, someone must step up.
Remember, it is a very short step from a Republic to tyranny. Ask the Romans or the Athenians.
-
jordan11
Dec. 19, 2006, 11:22 p.m.The ACLU is the enemy!>>>>>
Correct. They are the enemy of those who seek to subvert the Constitution of the United States. Anyone who has a problem with that, is either woefully ignorant, or suspect.
-
-
-
jeffery1
Dec. 19, 2006, 5:18 p.m.Do you mean "right-wing" treason in which an American speaks out against the right-wing's adored and most scrumptious leader and has the nerve to disagree with all right-wing ideology?
-
Freedom4All
Dec. 19, 2006, 5:17 p.m."everyone associated with the ACLU be arrested for treason." Nice grammar there buddy. Maybe you should be arrested for allowing yourself to be taught such poor skills with your great presidents No child left behind act. I see his program for that worked out so well also. As for ACLU committing treason of any sort, quite frankly your wrong. Without groups like the ACLU your opinion to express how you feel about subject would be nullified.
-
-
-
Spadecaller
Dec. 19, 2006, 2:57 p.m.LOL: yes, a 'little' diversion never hurts (or pleasures) anyone.
-
-
justron
Dec. 19, 2006, 3:30 p.m.The ACLU and life
If you ask a hog , whats the best "slop works fine"
If you ask a jackass whats the best thing"hay"
If you ask a ACLU attorney whats the best " hell I'll do anything reguardless of who I kill,or harm I'm a attorney"
Aculamated Looser Control Union
Question are all in the ACLU neutered, or does it just seem that way.
-
saneman
Dec. 19, 2006, 3:47 p.m.I am not sure why this article made the front page. This sort of legal maneuvering and haranguing happens every day in any litigation. Motions and countermotions are the tools used by litigators. The Federal Government and the ACLU always butt heads. One party will request the other party to turn over certain information voluntarily and the other party will tell them to file a motion and in turn the opposition will file a countermotion.
-
ind06
Dec. 19, 2006, 3:47 p.m.I first read about this on Donnaich's web site and they said this document had been stamped "Secret".
Why would a routine command like not taking pivtures of the prisoners be regarded as a secret, and espescially one that deserves this sort of unprecedented heavy-handed intervention by the Justice Department?
I knew this administration was secrecy obsessed but this is ridiculous, they just make themselves look bad.
The whole thing reeks of some bureaucrat getting his back up over someone trespassing on his bailiwick.
-
Beau7890
Dec. 19, 2006, 11:33 p.m.This administration IS secrecy obsessed, and has been from the start. (Weren't Cheney's secret sessions to determine oil policy back in 2001?)
But as for why the commnd about not taking pictures of the prisoners is "secret," I think Abu Ghraib scared them into declaring anything that could be even remotely connected to it classified.
-
-
bobshotme
Dec. 19, 2006, 3:54 p.m.The ACLU the enemy of all free people in the US, unless of course you're a far far left socialist.
-
Bkumm
Dec. 19, 2006, 5:09 p.m.Um, how do I say this, I mean, I don't want to offend, but, man you are so WRONG. WRONG, WRONG, WRONG and furthermore WRONG.
The ACLU is committed to the protection of everyone's rights. Yours, mine, the guy down the street, everyone. Have you been to their website? Have you checked out what they're actually doing? When you do, you will find the truth. I know, I know, it's easier to get your info from Rush and O'Reilly, but sometimes we can't just take their word for it. Do the leg work, I bet you'll change your tune.
-
-
FrankieT
Dec. 19, 2006, 3:54 p.m.The American Civil Liberties Union takes cases of people whose rights have been violated. Some cases you may agree with and some you may not.Remove them by force? What a 'let freedom ring' concept that is. On whose say so? Yours? Just cause they're your enemy doesn't mean they are the enemy of people who appreciate being represented when treated improperly by persons or groups.
Justron - What's in a name? Yours? What does nuetered have to do with it? How did you come to that supposition? Are you neutered? We can take up a collection?
Hog and joe - Your comments seem absurd to me and show little ability to differentiate between things/groups you
don't like and what purpose they actually serve.
Mossback - What an image that conjures up. Ask that question of the many Americans they have represented. I imagine ou don't like some cases they take but it is a free country for ALL of us, not just you and your narrow concept of freedom. And for God's sake, stop with the nazi stuff, will you.
-
Bobcat6
Dec. 19, 2006, 4:12 p.m.Oh, is the ACLU still around? I thought they were fading away w/the other useless organizations like the U.N. and such. Now suddenly they have a what? A victory? Wow. What they need is to gain some respect and try to rise from their decadence. I certainly have no use for them.
-
Bkumm
Dec. 19, 2006, 5:13 p.m.But you might in the future. The ACLU has represented organizations that have, respectively, been involved in: marching outside of abortion clinics, looking up information about guns in a public library and burning crosses as a form of dissadent behavior.
So, who knows? Maybe sometime you might need them.
-
Goppy
Dec. 19, 2006, 7:29 p.m.I agree with you Bobcat6.
The ACLU, by it's very nature, is a Godless enterprise. Why? Because they so often fight the Supreme Powers of this Christian Nation.
In fact, they have made it their MISSION to undermine the righteous efforts to allow us Christian Conservative Baptists to put Statues of the Ten Commandments in Public Buildings.
They won't let our children read the Bible in school, or even say Christian Prayers.
This is intolerable - more so today than ever before!
Why?
Because as more people come to America with DIFFERENT faiths, they might affect our Christian Children.
Plus, we Christian Conservative Evangelicals simply MUST exert our dominance over children of Jewish, Catholic, Methodist, Presbyterian, Lutheran, and Unitarian faiths.
Until these children know and understand that we are a Christian Baptist Nation, we are at risk.
We must DOMINATE these children's erroneous faiths.
The ACLU is PREVENTING us from doing this.
They are of Satan!
-
Beau7890
Dec. 19, 2006, 11:40 p.m.At the current rate of erosion of citizens' Constitutional rights, you'll have a use for the ACLU very soon.
-
-
sailr
Dec. 19, 2006, 4:23 p.m.I can hear the neocons, limbaugh, O'reilly, hannity, et all now. Ooooo, activist judges! Thank God we have some judges who still uphold the constitution. In the eyes of the far right ideologues, any judge that does not kowtow to their warped sense of justice is 'activist'. I only hope this country can overcome the right wingers and regain some sense of respect in the world. I doubt it will be in any living soul's lifetime after the damage that Bush has done in 6 short years. IMPEACH NOW!!! He deserves to not only be impeached by imprisoned! Cheney should be his cell mate and condie could do conjugal visits from the women's wing!
-
Illuminate
Dec. 20, 2006, 3:42 a.m.Judges shouldn't be activist's should they? They interperet the Constitution based on law and precedent NOT beliefs, activism or prejudice? You cant tell me the courts like the 9th Circuit Ct arent 'Activists' - go look at recent rulings (dont look at the Bush et al one -I agree with those - some are correct and some are just ludicrious- looney at best.
Am I just way off?
The ACLU does serve a purpose albeit they have swung far to (left- right, makes no diff to me- from their purpose)
and wouldnt it be show evidence to jury, congress or whomever THEN IMPEACH (NOW)
-
-
themim
Dec. 19, 2006, 4:31 p.m.This is the first time I have logged on here in a while. I can't believe how the median IQ for contributors has dropped.
I particularly like the brain surgeon who referred to the the ACLU and the United Nations as "useless organizations?" If it weren't for these "useless" organizations, you all might be hung or gotten your tongues cut out for your comments in another country. Grow up, guys.
-
-
Bkumm
Dec. 19, 2006, 6:05 p.m.But, but, but...Actually I'm a little tired of the UN bashing too. They do a lot of really good things. The whole peacekeeping thing is a mess, but as I've said before, I don't think that is really the fault of the UN as much as it is a systemic problem within the UN.
The 'oil for food' thing was a bad deal, but what do you expect when you hand over that kind of thing to people for whom graft is an acceptable way to do business?
-
jordan11
Dec. 19, 2006, 11:33 p.m.Some of the UN is actually useful (when it's not siphoning off money into it's own pockets, that is....)>>>>>
You mean like WE'VE done in Iraq, with billions in their oil money missing? Like that?
-
Beau7890
Dec. 19, 2006, 11:47 p.m.Regardless of how successful it is (looks like that's already been addressed), the UN tries to be useful, and isn't at least an attempt at world diplomacy better than starting more wars?
-
Spadecaller
Dec. 19, 2006, 7:11 p.m.It's like Mel Gibson; after he's had a few, his delightful bigotted attitudes come out. I've noticed that starting around happy hour the idiocy of some of the extremist right wing bloggers really goes haywire. The pitch of insanity rises quickly. If we weren't blogging we'd be bleeding.
-
-
jasmine5000
Dec. 19, 2006, 7:13 p.m.i read a case where a student called his teacher a ******. the teacher suspended the student and the ACLU took the case and forced the school to overturn the suspension.
i strongly disagree that a person should be able to use sexist and sexually derogatory language to a female, especially a female in authority. Had the case been different, say a employer using that language toward his employee, it may have been different.
But the ACLU is determined to defend everyone's right to the first amendment. That means tolerating everyone's right to express their opinion regardless of how sexist, bigoted that may be. As for the ACLU being the enemy of the united states, nonsense. So far they haven't expressed any to overthrow the constitution.
No ACLU representative has ever said that they want to install shariah law on the united states or overthrow the government to make the quran the law of the land. Muslim say that.
-
DKelley
Dec. 19, 2006, 7:36 p.m.The American Communistic Loving Unit should be hammered for having military secrets. If it is classified by the military the anti-Americans shouldn't have them.
-
Goppy
Dec. 19, 2006, 8:01 p.m.Ha, DKelly! I like the way you think.
Government ALWAYS knows best.
Well, Conservative Republican Governments.
When Democrats rule, we should be able to read their interoffice emails to make sure they're not selling our nation to Hugo Chavez!!
HA!
And once Christian Conservative Baptists take over our Government, we'll send all Democrats to H ell - right where God wants them!!
Southern Baptists Over All - Forever!!!
-
-
The first 87 comments are shown. Show all 108 comments »
Submitted By:
Beau7890
I used to have a quote here from Andre Breton, author of several surrealist works.
I now think that if you're here on Propeller ...
Also submitted:
