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Death after two-hour ER wait ruled homicide »
Posted by: capn_caveman 2 years agoA coroner's jury has declared the death of a heart attack victim who spent almost two hours in a hospital waiting room to be a homicide.
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capn_caveman
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Comments: 38
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TheAttacks
Sept. 15, 2006, 4:28 p.m.http://news.findlaw.com/cnn/docs/negligence/vance91406juryinquest.html
Related Infomation, Jury's findings :-)
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joeblowe
Sept. 15, 2006, 5:45 p.m.What's to debate? Someone screwed up BIG time. I can't imagine who they would CHARGE with the homicide, but: SOBs MUST PAY! This isn't the first time I've heard about someone sitting in a damn hospital emergency room in the Chicago area for WWWaaaayy too long, and suffering for it. They get SO tied up with their paperwork and "proper" prodedures that they overlook the PATIENTS! Just another example of entrenched bureaucracy killing someone.
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moxxxxxxxxxx
Sept. 15, 2006, 6:14 p.m.Don't blame the hospitals!!!! The FEDERAL law states they have to see anyone who walks through their doors wether or not they can pay or have insurance. Emergency rooms are at capacity because people without money or insurance use the ER for care that could be treated in a physicians office. Since they can't pay they can't see a physician in his office. Blame insurance companies for bleeding every dollar out of healthcare economics. Insurance companies are FOR PROFIT entities- hospitals treat everyone. How can you make profit by giving away free care?
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pms01459
Sept. 15, 2006, 10:53 p.m.The emergency rooms in Illinois suck free health care my ass, if you are poor you are out of luck the nurses and doctors view you as a repeat flyer if you go to the ER more than once in a blue moon and could care less about what they need to do it more about what litte can we do and still make you think they care. In Alton Illinois if you have a state medical card or no insurance you can,t even get a cast put on a broken arm or leg.They tell you its because the Doctors has not received money from the state for over a year.They try to tell go to a childrens hospital in St. Louis well guess what it may never happen
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ochs
Sept. 16, 2006, 1:34 a.m.This is just terrible and what's worse is that they are charging someone with homicide. Obviously, charging someone is idiotic and useless. How about take action and try and FIX the problem instead of inflaming it?
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CameronKollwitz
Sept. 16, 2006, 2:08 a.m.It was an emergency! I don't see why they would let her sit there and die! Sickening.
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moxxxxxxxxxx
Sept. 16, 2006, 3:38 a.m.pms,
Do you expect doctors and hospital's to work for free? A broken arm isn't a life threatening emergency. You could have easily traveled the 25 miles to Children's Hospital for the cast. Children's Hospital likely has the money to treat patient's with no income or insurance. And the care is much better for children at that hospital. Emergency rooms only stabilize people and move them on to the next level of care. I am sure the doctor made sure the patient wasn't going to die before they suggested a different hospital.
The question that should have been asked is how many other patients with life threatening illnesses were they treating at the time. If the lady wasn't in pain , didn't complain and wasn't dying at the time the nurse did exactly what she was trained to do- triage.
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Bobcat6
Sept. 16, 2006, 8:10 a.m.Boy talk about incompetence! That whole ER staff must have had their heads squarely up their butts. Crucify all of them! There's no group of medical staff more arrogant than ER doctors.
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pms01459
Sept. 16, 2006, 9:06 a.m.Don't expect doctors and hosiptal to work for free. What make you think the larger hospitals have more money than others. St. Louis has their share of so called selfpay patients of their own. Seem to me our nice gov. B said health care for all children. I think he needs to take his own child to the er and claim no insurance. And when it comes to free how about marked up because if you have insurance your bill is less because the company worked out a deal.So the less money you have to pay the more money you have to pay. A broken bone may not be a life threatening emergency But the sign out side says Emergency. Not For Life Threatening Only. But it should say Mastercard and Visa only
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pms01459
Sept. 16, 2006, 9:17 a.m.moxxx since when it out the door, your on your own the next level of care. Because if it was the hospital would make sure the other hospital was really going treat the patient before the patient leaves the emergency room . After all thats how it works if you have insurance
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samsara15
Sept. 16, 2006, 10:22 a.m.In addition, I'm sure they hit the dead woman's family with a hefty bill.
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Linkgmr
Sept. 16, 2006, 10:31 a.m.Why is anyone being charged with homicide? There was an accident. Someone dies. Sad, sure, but it happens all the time. When you go to a hospital to go to the ER, it is usually with you knowing that the risk of death is apparent, or, if you are unconscious, it is usually known to the person taking you that the risk of death is apparent. Now, there are more serious things than heart attacks, such as heart failure, gunshot wounds to the head, etc. Maybe there was a large amount of those. Maybe all the emergency rooms were in use. Maybe you are all correct, and the doctor did mean to kill this person. But, no one knows all the details, and there are plenty of good reasons for not getting someone to an ER on time.
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Mudshark
Sept. 16, 2006, 10:41 a.m.I think the hospital should be held responsible, but I think homocide is rediculous. I wonder what this coronors political leaning is. I guess as a layman I would think that if a 50 year old came to the ER in the middle of summer in the Chicago area with her symptoms, I would assume that this case was top priority. If they treated it as such she would still be alive.
Anyway, about 2 weeks before this during the big heatwave in the east I went to the ER in Lower Bucks county in PA with severe abdominal pain and wound up being there for 3 hours before being seen. This type of thing happens everywhere.
Wound up I had to have emergency gall bladder surgery because of a gallstone the size of a walnut. If it burst I could have died.
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NCphillyfan
Sept. 16, 2006, 10:44 a.m.moxxxxx
Stop defending the emergency room. Apparently, you have never received a bill from the emergency room since you are asking us if we think they work for free. Its ridiculous what they charge. This is a terrible tragedy that could have been avoided if the staff would have done a better job of assessing the situation. But like "samsara15" said....Im sure they still hit the womans family with a huge bill.
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midwifn
Sept. 16, 2006, 11:54 a.m.Good for the jury in this case! Tragic story, but maybe some justice will be served.... and maybe, just maybe there will be some changes for the better in the ERs around the country.
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PaganGodess
Sept. 16, 2006, noonAre there any actual medical people out there who can comment on this from someplace beyond a lower orifice?
Do patients with ANY kind of breathing problem not get top priority? If the triage nurse had training beyond what she sees on TV I would think she should have known this. She ought to be the one charged with homicide.
As for the insurance/hospitals and doctors issue, I know from personal experience that a doctor has no problem letting you die of a life threatening illness if you don't have insurance!
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CommonSense50
Sept. 16, 2006, 12:10 p.m.Medical people are not going to comment, they close ranks and protect their own. Deaths by hospital neglect happen more than what you think, this incident is not an isolated occurence. We have a Kaiser here that repeatedly does the same thing. While in college, I worked in a law office and the things doctors would admit there but never on a stand and the lawyers would coach them on how to get around the problem. And, unfortuantely, the insurance problem is another issue, what is the first question they ask? Who or what is your insurance carrier and if you have none, (emergency or not) you are shutted off to the local government medical center only to really have a wait for attention.
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PaganGodess
Sept. 16, 2006, 12:19 p.m.Common: Yeah, that's a shame. I think medical doctors should be held accountable for thier actions. Hypocratic oath? Riiiiiiight! They all take that with one finger crossed behind them.
DOCTOR: No insurance? Okay, well we can remove that FAST growing, RARE, cancer tumor for ya using an intern. I don't know, I may be there to observe depending upon my tee-off time. Your chances of surviving that operation just went down 50% without insurance. Have a nice day!
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jordan11
Sept. 16, 2006, 12:28 p.m.milemarker: Rather than worrying about lawsuit we need to find out why it happened?>>>>>>>
The only way the medical community will give a damn as to 'why' it happened is to hit them where it hurts....in their pocketbooks. Like it or not, health care is a business.....not an altruistic endeavor overall.
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jordan11
Sept. 16, 2006, 12:31 p.m.moxxxxxxxx: Don't blame the hospitals!!!! The FEDERAL law states they have to see anyone who walks through their doors wether or not they can pay or have insurance. Emergency rooms are at capacity because people without money or insurance use the ER for care that could be treated in a physicians office. >>>>>
Hospitals don't have to take 'first come first served'! They should have the brains to set priorities, and you DON"T leave a heart attack victim sitting while you work on a sore thumb!!!
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filagator
Sept. 16, 2006, 1:06 p.m.Well friends I am a nurse and I know for a fact anyone who complains of chest pain should not have even had their butts hit a chair in the waiting area. Chances are this person walked into the ED and should've just dialed 9-1-1 where they had been and been transported by ambulance to the ED. That certainly does not excuse anyone who came into contact with that pt after she walked through the door. She should have been seen immediately and MONA should have occurred (Morphine, Oxygen, Nitrogen and Aspirin) she should have been placed on a monitor and labs should've been drawn to check for cardiac markers (CK, CKMB) and it should've have been rechecked again in eight hours. This pt was obviously not treated with the universal standard of care and someone was negligent. Blame it on the system if you want but I don't feel it is totally the 'systems' fault. Nurses do have brains and they definitely have mouths so I feel like the triage nurse should have been more of a pt. advocate.
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Rubes
Sept. 16, 2006, 1:18 p.m.Bottom line - Emergency rooms are just really a "clinic you go to when your doctor's office is closed".
There is nothing in the way that I have seen in my experience that shows they move quickly. My wife had something in her throat one time almost passing out and shaking. It took them over an hour and a half to see us. (this is with me going up every 20 mins).
It was a joke.
I understand they get busy and only have so much staff and rooms, but they should have told us that. There was another urgent care office 15 mins away we could have gone to. Bu they said "someone will be with you shortly".
Looking back in retrospect, they just wanted the business, and a nice bill that they charged me.
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darkness
Sept. 16, 2006, 1:47 p.m.How sad for this lady any how incompetent of nurse who intially looked at her said her condition was not life threatning(low priority). CAN YOU SAY LAWSUIT, and now the hospital will have higher insurance because of this.
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